You are being a legalist.
No, I am pointing out a fact. The data from Egyptology is mute, all interpretation is a construct of the human mind, all history is a construct of the human mind, thus Egyptologists HAVE to be the subject and not the discipline.
Egyptology/Egyptologists = synonymous.
Egyptologists study Egyptology, but Egyptology only provides the data, the interpretation of that data is done by Egyptologists. In your scenario it is Egyptologists who present this strawman from Egyptology, but the discipline itself cannot talk.
Egyptologists are notoriously anti-Bible.
Tell you what, what about if I post the names and references from Egyptologists who believe that there was an Exodus, will you post an equal amount of Egyptologists who explicity state you ‘strawman?
Off the top of my head I can present three Egyptologists who believe that there was an Exodus.
Kenneth Kitchen Emeritus Professor of Egyptology and Honorary Research Fellow at the School of Archaeology, Classics and Oriental Studies, Liverpool University.
From Kitchen. K. A.
Ancient Orient and Old Testament Tyndale Press, London 1966. pp. 57-58
First, Exodus 1:11 links the oppression of the Israelites with the building of the store-cities of Pithom and Rameses, giving thereby an indication of date for the end of the oppression and for the Exodus. Ra’amses is most probably the Pi-Rameses of Egyptian texts, founded by Sethos I and mainly built (and named) by Ramesses II. The Exodus, therefore, is best dated after the ascension of Ramesses II (1304 or 1290 BC).
Then we have
James K Hoffmeier Dr. Hoffmeier, who was born in Egypt and lived there until age 16, returns often for research and excavation. In 1975-77 he worked with the Akhenaten Temple Project in Luxor. He served from 1980-99 as Professor of Archaeology and Old Testament at Wheaton College, and was chairman of Wheaton's Department of Biblical, Theological, Religious and Archaeological Studies from 1992-98.
He wrote a book that is often presented by fundies
Israel in Egypt: The Evidence for the Authenticity of the Exodus Tradition
The name itself surely tells you that he believes there was an Exodus, but if you want quotes let me know.
One more for good measure?
David Rohl
From the inner age of the book
A Test of Time: Volume One The Bible from Myth to History Arrow Books, London 1995.
David took his degree in Egyptology and Ancient History at University College, London, between 1987 and 1990, where he is currently completing a doctoral thesis.
From the same book page 283:
In terms of the overall historical picture developed in this book the biblical episode detailing the life of Moses and the Exodus of the Israelites from Egypt once again appear to slot neatly into place within the new chronological framework.
I am not the first person to suggest an Exodus date in the late 13th Dynasty. In the 1950’s Immanuel Velikovsky, in his book Ages in Chaos, proposed such a scheme.
There we have three Egyptologists, and all believe in an Exodus from Egypt, can you present three Egyptologists who use this ‘strawman’ that you believe has been set up?
They are responsible for feeding the world this rhetorical straw man question:
"Where in Egyptian texts/sources/records are the Plagues/Exodus ?"
Well, to be fair, we have yet to see evidence of this, all we have so far is your word, which I am sure is honourable, but in this instance we need something on top of that.
In response, I ask; "Where does Egypt or any Near East nation record defeats ?"
Well, how many records of Near eastern Nations recording defeats would you need to admit that this theory is incorrect?
Would eight records be enough?
The following records are all taken from the Tell el-Amarna archives, dated from 1400-1350 BCE. I obviously couldn’t type out all of the texts, but if there are any specific references that you would like the full text for then let me know.
Translations are from the book
The Tell-el-Amarna-Letters , Berlin : Reuther & Reichard, 1896.
EA 126 Sihlali-Sumur (from Irkata?)
And behold,, I (?) have been driven. out of Irkata and (am?) in Simyra, and I have not the people who are at the palace.
EA 134 The Prince of Hazi
The Habiri are hostile to me, and are taking possession of the cities of my lord, the king, my god, my sun. For the Habiri have taken Mahziti, the city of my lord, the king, and have plundered it, and have given it over to the fire. And the habiri have occupied the city of Sigata.
EA 137 A Syrian Prince to the King
Abd-asirti has marched against me and behold, he has beaten my people and.
EA 138 Akizza of Katna
My lord, Azira has carried off the people of Katna, my servants although they all belong to my lord’s country.
EA 146 Zimrida of Sidon
O my lord I am your servant, and Namiawaza has made me evil in your eyes, O my lord. And while making me evil in your eyes, he has been occupying the whole territory of my father in the land of Kades, and my towns, he has given over to fire.
EA 147 Zimrida of Sidon
And let my lord, the king, know that the hostility against me is very powerful, all my cities, which the king gave into my hand, have fallen into the hands of the Habiri
EA 162 Lapaja
Since I have fallen (?) ? ? ? my two cities have been taken.
EA 165 Suwardata
Let the lord, the king, know that Abd-hiba has taken my city from me..
Further, lapaja is dead, he who took our cities and, verily, lapaja was allied with(?) Abd-hiba and (the tow of them) robbed our cities.
I got bored typing out after eight, but these are enough records to negate your claim. If you want more records I can type out more for you.
Comment assumes as fact any evidence which does is not evidence.
We have the Biblical record.
The biblical record is not a primary source, and anyway, this is circular reasoning.
We have extensive evidence of Hebrews in Egypt c.938 BC.
Do we?
Apart from the fact that this, by your chronology, would be over 500 years after the Exodus, how does this support your argument that there were Hebrews in Egypt for 430 years before the Exodus?
We have Hyksos evidence and their identification as Zarahites.
References please, and relevance.
We now know that Thutmose III did not live in the 15th century BC but in the 10 century BC as he was a contemporary of Rehoboam.
Well, I am planning on just working my way through your opening claims and dealing with them one at a time. So, can we keep this Thutmosis claim until we arrive at it?
Before we move on, are you happy to drop the claim that no near eastern nations record defeats?
Are you going to post the names and references of some Egyptologists who offer up your ‘strawman’? If not, do you concede this point too?
Once we have arrived at a conclusion for these two points, we can move on.
Brian.
™ Version 4.2
