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Author Topic:   Is science a religion?
subbie
Member (Idle past 1281 days)
Posts: 3509
Joined: 02-26-2006


Message 31 of 295 (291346)
03-01-2006 10:01 PM
Reply to: Message 30 by crashfrog
03-01-2006 10:00 PM


Re: Defining "Supernatural"
I'd love to give you some specific examples but, as I said, I don't have any. Sorry.

Those who would sacrifice an essential liberty for a temporary security will lose both, and deserve neither. -- Benjamin Franklin

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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nator
Member (Idle past 2196 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 32 of 295 (291393)
03-02-2006 8:24 AM
Reply to: Message 28 by subbie
03-01-2006 8:15 PM


Re: Defining "Supernatural"
quote:
Keep in mind, science is done by scientists who are, by and large, just like regular people. They are often motivated by the same irrational drives that the rest of us mere mortals suffer from. Many, many sins against the scientific method have been made, some honest, some otherwise.
Actually, most of the actual scientists I know (and I know a fair many) tend to be less sure of what they know, and what is known, than the general populace.
It's the way science works, you see, with the constant criticism and picking apart and flaw-finding in each others' research. Peer-review, reproducability, and tentativity do a pretty good job to keep most of the biases and "irrational drives" in check.
That's precisely what the scientific method is for.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by subbie, posted 03-01-2006 8:15 PM subbie has not replied

nator
Member (Idle past 2196 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 33 of 295 (291395)
03-02-2006 8:26 AM
Reply to: Message 31 by subbie
03-01-2006 10:01 PM


Re: Defining "Supernatural"
quote:
I'd love to give you some specific examples but, as I said, I don't have any. Sorry.
Come on, now, you said that there were a whole lot of people, and you can't even name one?

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Replies to this message:
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robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 34 of 295 (291410)
03-02-2006 9:03 AM


the definition of supernatural
"Supernatural" means "incorporeal."

Replies to this message:
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crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1493 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 35 of 295 (291478)
03-02-2006 11:55 AM
Reply to: Message 34 by robinrohan
03-02-2006 9:03 AM


Re: the definition of supernatural
Sound is supernatural? Language is supernatural? Light is supernatural?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by robinrohan, posted 03-02-2006 9:03 AM robinrohan has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 36 by robinrohan, posted 03-02-2006 12:11 PM crashfrog has replied

robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 36 of 295 (291483)
03-02-2006 12:11 PM
Reply to: Message 35 by crashfrog
03-02-2006 11:55 AM


Re: the definition of supernatural
Such things are not incorporeal. If it's produced physically, it's not incorporeal. If it's an abstraction, then it doesn't exist.
However, if you could have something that was not produced by nature, it would be outside of nature, and that would be supernatural. The incorporeal, if such existed, would be outside of nature (incorporeal mind, for example).
Sound is the movement of airwaves that enter the ear, I guess.
Language if spoken is obviously corporeal. Otherwise, one can think of it as an abstraction--something symbolic.
Light is the movement of photons, whatever those are. They go real fast.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by crashfrog, posted 03-02-2006 11:55 AM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 37 by crashfrog, posted 03-02-2006 12:16 PM robinrohan has replied

crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1493 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 37 of 295 (291485)
03-02-2006 12:16 PM
Reply to: Message 36 by robinrohan
03-02-2006 12:11 PM


Re: the definition of supernatural
Such things are not incorporeal. If it's produced physically, it's not incorporeal.
You sure have some funny definitions of words. "Incorporeal" simply means "without body". It's not a reference to the origin of the thing.
Souls, for instance, would be incorporeal, but produced physically.
Light is the movement of photons, whatever those are. They go real fast.
So, you're defining corporeality as speed?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 36 by robinrohan, posted 03-02-2006 12:11 PM robinrohan has replied

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robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 38 of 295 (291494)
03-02-2006 12:57 PM
Reply to: Message 37 by crashfrog
03-02-2006 12:16 PM


Re: the definition of supernatural
So, you're defining corporeality as speed?
If it can be measured in some physical way, then it's corporeal. Speed is a physical measurement as is weight, volume, color, shape, etc.
The soul, if such existed, has no weight, color, shape, volume, etc. It doesn't "take up space." This would be a supernatural thing.

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 Message 37 by crashfrog, posted 03-02-2006 12:16 PM crashfrog has not replied

Brad McFall
Member (Idle past 5059 days)
Posts: 3428
From: Ithaca,NY, USA
Joined: 12-20-2001


Message 39 of 295 (291779)
03-03-2006 11:00 AM
Reply to: Message 33 by nator
03-02-2006 8:26 AM


Picking out an orange in bucket of apples
quote:
Bertrand Russell - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Russell's logical work with Whitehead continued this project. ... "Bertrand Russell would not have wished to be called a saint of any description; ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bertrand_Russell - 101k - Mar 1, 2006 - Cached - Similar pages
quote:
Bertrand Russell - Wikipedia
Any person who would like to go beyond calling me an "idealist" to my face but referbackhandedly that I am a "logIcal saint" as USED by Russell himself, could indeed be such a scientifically minded person. The attempt to describe such a person is fraught with erroneous prejudices.
One actual person was Richard Boyd.
Page not found | The College of Arts & Sciences
Apparently neither Cornell nor Harvard taught us how to cut our hair while we might have learned a thing or two about inductions in space. My mother wishing that I cut my hair and her believing that I do the same are two different things that Boyd's wife probably didnt know about me.
This message has been edited by Brad McFall, 03-03-2006 11:01 AM

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Rawel Singh
Inactive Member


Message 40 of 295 (293652)
03-09-2006 12:26 PM


There is no conflict between science and divine
I really find it very surprising to see some people opposing everything that is connected with the divine. I have been studying this phenomenon for some time and have come to the view that there are basically two reasons for this. Firstly accepting that some thing has been done or assisted by divine dilutes the ego of man or woman.A hardworking person would attribute all success to his or her intelligence and hard work. Doubtless these are essential cotributors to success. But how often do we grieve when we do not achieve something or lose it? Have the husband and wife been successful on every attempt when they wanted to have a baby? Secondly belief in divine requires adherence to cetain ethical disciplines. Those who do not want to subject themselves to discipline deny the very existence or help of God.
This message has been edited by AdminJar, 03-10-2006 02:52 PM

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sidelined
Member (Idle past 5934 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 41 of 295 (293665)
03-09-2006 1:02 PM
Reply to: Message 40 by Rawel Singh
03-09-2006 12:26 PM


Re: There is no conflict between science and divine
Rawel Singh
Secondly belief in divine requires adherence to cetain ethical disciplines. Those who do not want to subject themselves to discipline deny the very existence or help of God.
Care to step up to the plate and explain how you are more ethically disciplined than I am?
This message has been edited by AdminJar, 03-09-2006 12:05 PM

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subbie
Member (Idle past 1281 days)
Posts: 3509
Joined: 02-26-2006


Message 42 of 295 (294046)
03-10-2006 3:42 PM
Reply to: Message 40 by Rawel Singh
03-09-2006 12:26 PM


Re: There is no conflict between science and divine
Wow. This is fascinating. You can only think of two reasons why people reject the divine. I can not only undermine both your reason, but come up with a better one to add to them.
Some of the most prideful people I know believe in god. They have no problem whatsoever in trumpeting their own greatness while at the same time praising god. Moreover, I am a quite humble person, and am well-aware that the great things I have achieved in life were always a result of the work of others to which I contributed.
As far as ethical discipline goes, I see devout people doing unethical things all the time. While most religions propose ethical standards they expect their adherents to follow, that's no guarantee that the believers will follow. And, I know a great many people who are atheists and are quite moral, but most standards that most people accept. Actually, it's really quite arrogant and condescending for believers to assume that nonbelievers are less ethical.
You want a third reason to be an atheist? A general personal disposition not to believe in things we see no evidence for. If you haven't come across that as a reason for rejecting divinity, you couldn't have been studying it all that much.
This message has been edited by AdminJar, 03-10-2006 02:51 PM

Those who would sacrifice an essential liberty for a temporary security will lose both, and deserve neither. -- Benjamin Franklin

This message is a reply to:
 Message 40 by Rawel Singh, posted 03-09-2006 12:26 PM Rawel Singh has not replied

Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 43 of 295 (294047)
03-10-2006 3:47 PM
Reply to: Message 40 by Rawel Singh
03-09-2006 12:26 PM


Re: There is no conflict between science and divine
quote:
I have been studying this phenomenon for some time and have come to the view that there are basically two reasons for this.
If that's all you can come up with, then I suggest you do some more studying.
Yeah, yeah, responding to an off-topic message. I know.
This message has been edited by AdminJar, 03-10-2006 02:52 PM

"Intellectually, scientifically, even artistically, fundamentalism -- biblical literalism -- is a road to nowhere, because it insists on fidelity to revealed truths that are not true." -- Katha Pollitt

This message is a reply to:
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2ice_baked_taters
Member (Idle past 5877 days)
Posts: 566
From: Boulder Junction WI.
Joined: 02-16-2006


Message 44 of 295 (294270)
03-11-2006 11:11 AM


Wow.....y'all are not only away from the tree but in another town.
lol
Anywho...the question asked - Is science a religion?
The basic concept of science is not.
For those believe there is a meaningful scientific explanation to everything, it is.
This message has been edited by 2ice_baked_taters, 03-11-2006 11:11 AM

Replies to this message:
 Message 45 by ReverendDG, posted 03-13-2006 6:31 PM 2ice_baked_taters has replied

ReverendDG
Member (Idle past 4137 days)
Posts: 1119
From: Topeka,kansas
Joined: 06-06-2005


Message 45 of 295 (294994)
03-13-2006 6:31 PM
Reply to: Message 44 by 2ice_baked_taters
03-11-2006 11:11 AM


For those believe there is a meaningful scientific explanation to everything, it is.
how do you mean? All things of the physical realm have a scientific explanation.
the fact is religions have to do with things that are pretty much untestable, non physical and only exist subjectivly
if you argue spirits,souls or gods are objective please take a picture of one for me please

This message is a reply to:
 Message 44 by 2ice_baked_taters, posted 03-11-2006 11:11 AM 2ice_baked_taters has replied

Replies to this message:
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