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PurpleYouko
Member
Posts: 714
From: Columbia Missouri
Joined: 11-11-2004


Message 76 of 80 (261016)
11-18-2005 3:37 PM
Reply to: Message 75 by Nadine
11-18-2005 3:32 PM


Re: Nuclear differences
Nadine writes:
There is a small, but measurable difference between the emission spectra of hydrogen (only a proton) and deuterium (a proton and a neutron), see http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/hyde.html , bottom of the page.
Original content deleted as I thought I was answering a different thread
Nadine. I was actuially unaware of that. Thanks for the info.
However, to measure this difference would require some pretty fancy equipment and would well beyond the capability of most modern spectrometers used for regular analysis techniques.
This message has been edited by PurpleYouko, 11-18-2005 03:39 PM
This message has been edited by PurpleYouko, 11-18-2005 03:45 PM

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 Message 75 by Nadine, posted 11-18-2005 3:32 PM Nadine has not replied

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 Message 77 by Coragyps, posted 11-18-2005 4:15 PM PurpleYouko has replied

  
Coragyps
Member (Idle past 755 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 77 of 80 (261030)
11-18-2005 4:15 PM
Reply to: Message 76 by PurpleYouko
11-18-2005 3:37 PM


Re: Nuclear differences
0.18 nm is 1.8 Angstroms. That would have been easily measured by the spectroscopists back before 1900. Perhaps a bit close for something like my Spec20, but not terribly difficult.
This message has been edited by Coragyps, 11-18-2005 04:16 PM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 76 by PurpleYouko, posted 11-18-2005 3:37 PM PurpleYouko has replied

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 Message 78 by PurpleYouko, posted 11-19-2005 9:01 PM Coragyps has replied

  
PurpleYouko
Member
Posts: 714
From: Columbia Missouri
Joined: 11-11-2004


Message 78 of 80 (261379)
11-19-2005 9:01 PM
Reply to: Message 77 by Coragyps
11-18-2005 4:15 PM


Re: Nuclear differences
What kind of system is that?
I am even now anxiously awaiting the delivery of a new ICPOES system from Perkin Elmer. Atomic absorption/emmision is a bit of a new field for me so I am not as well informed about this as some other forms of spectrometry such as Inorganic Mass Spec (my primary field)
I was under the impression that run-of-the-mill absorption/emmision spectrometers would be pretty much unable to tell the difference between isotopes of the same element. They just don't make them with that kind of resolution normally.
Or do I have it completely wrong?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 77 by Coragyps, posted 11-18-2005 4:15 PM Coragyps has replied

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 Message 79 by Coragyps, posted 11-19-2005 10:56 PM PurpleYouko has not replied

  
Coragyps
Member (Idle past 755 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 79 of 80 (261406)
11-19-2005 10:56 PM
Reply to: Message 78 by PurpleYouko
11-19-2005 9:01 PM


Re: Nuclear differences
Just a regular ol' prism spectroscope with sufficient focal length would be fine. They're probably more an astronomical tool than a chemical one, but were used a lot in the late 1800's before we had all this electronics to do the heavy lifting for us. The yellow emission lines of sodium are only 7 Angstroms apart, IIRC, and they were well known to be a doublet back in Bunsen and Kirchoff's day.
Atomic emission and absorption spectrometers nowadays, I think, use filters to isolate wavelengths they aren't using, and choose the lines they measure to avoid as much interference as possible. They don't need great resolution, in other words. And, of course, hydrogen and deuterium differ more in properties than any other pair around due to the mass difference being a factor of 2.

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 Message 78 by PurpleYouko, posted 11-19-2005 9:01 PM PurpleYouko has not replied

  
Christian7
Member (Idle past 269 days)
Posts: 628
From: n/a
Joined: 01-19-2004


Message 80 of 80 (265143)
12-02-2005 8:12 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by NosyNed
11-18-2004 7:48 PM


Re: Holding atoms together II
Protons and Neutrons are made of "quarks"
Up quarks have a 2/3 positive charge.
Down quarks have a 1/3 negative charge.
So, Protons are made of 2 up quarks and 1 down quark, and neutrons are made of 2 down quarks and 1 up quark.
Protons become neutrons when one of the up quarks is converted to a down quark and all other kinds of crap happens with release of energy and virtual particles.
There are 24 elementary feminons (or however you spell it) and additional bosons like photons and etc.
There are 6 quarks, 6 antiquarks, 6 leptons, and 6 antileptons.
An electron is a lepton.
A hadron is a composition of quarks.
A baryon is a hadron of three quarks.
Therefore protons and neutrons are baryons.
The nuclious of the atom is held together by the strong residentual force wich has to do with a color charge (not litteral colors) between quarks.
Quarks cannot exist by themselves. If you pull quarks away you will wind up creating a structure of 1 matter quark and one antimatter quark. These are called me somethings (I forget lol)
Shall I go on? I know ALOT about quantam physics, and I mean ALOT. Like how electrons jump around losing and gaining quantams of energy and all that good crap. I could go on forever explaining it all.
Bosons are particles that are transfered between femions which trasmit force. For example: The electromagnetic force is mediated by the photon as someone said (but I forgot who) before I replied.
Should I continue?

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 Message 7 by NosyNed, posted 11-18-2004 7:48 PM NosyNed has not replied

  
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