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Member (Idle past 5790 days) Posts: 79 From: Merritt Island FL Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Why Lie? (Re: Evolution frauds and hoaxes) | |||||||||||||||||||||||
Alasdair Member (Idle past 5777 days) Posts: 143 Joined: |
No, it doesn't need the fossil record. It's just the easiest to visualize, especially for the layman.
When it was first proposed in Darwin's time, there really wasn't a fossil record to go on. Maybe you should do a bit of reading on the subject before you try to debunk it?
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grandfather raven Junior Member (Idle past 5473 days) Posts: 27 From: Alaska, USA Joined: |
"Hesperopithecus was not mentioned by anyone during the course of the Scopes trial, although other major discoveries of fossil hominids were discussed from the stand and in written testimony. Recent claims by Hitching that "the Hesperopithecus tooth was proudly displayed [at the trial] as evidence that man had a long evolutionary past" (1982, p. 211) are simply untrue; [snip]"
The role of Nebraska man in the creation-evolution debate why are you lying, Flea?
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Kapyong Member (Idle past 3470 days) Posts: 344 Joined: |
Hiya,
quote: Um, no.It completely fails. You have been asked many times for five examples of forged fossils.You have ignored this request many times. Now you present the arguments over dating skull 1470.Which is not a forgery. In other words - you can't even come up with ONE single further example of a forged fossil (beyond the couple already cited.) What does that say about your claim of many forged fossils? Iasion
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Kapyong Member (Idle past 3470 days) Posts: 344 Joined: |
quote: This guy is a troll.He cannot be real. Iasion
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Coyote Member (Idle past 2134 days) Posts: 6117 Joined: |
This guy is a troll. He cannot be real. When all of your scientific research is done on sites like AnswersInGenesis, you naturally get a distorted view of the evidence supporting the theory of evolution. And you might even get to believing that what AIG writes is accurate. That only prepares one for a rude awakening on encountering the real world and all the evidence there actually is. Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
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Dont Be a Flea Member (Idle past 5790 days) Posts: 79 From: Merritt Island FL Joined: |
YI have not used the answers in Genesis website as one single source on this entire forum. This is typical. I have a valid arguement, and its not valid enough because YOU said so.
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Dont Be a Flea Member (Idle past 5790 days) Posts: 79 From: Merritt Island FL Joined: |
Troll. Interesting. Did I evolve into one?
I thought you were supposed to argue the topic, and not engage in insulting its participants.
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ramoss Member (Idle past 640 days) Posts: 3228 Joined: |
Please provide evidence it was used in the scopes trial.
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grandfather raven Junior Member (Idle past 5473 days) Posts: 27 From: Alaska, USA Joined: |
I have a valid arguement
you can keep saying that (and possibly even believing it) but you have yet to support its validity consequently, it has been debunked all over these 4 pages
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grandfather raven Junior Member (Idle past 5473 days) Posts: 27 From: Alaska, USA Joined: |
Please provide evidence it was used in the scopes trial.
i've already provided evidence that it was NOT used, so good luck there
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randman  Suspended Member (Idle past 4927 days) Posts: 6367 Joined: |
I thought you were supposed to argue the topic, and not engage in insulting its participants. It's an easy way for evos to avoid debating the topic, imo. Probably evidence you are making some headway in presenting a formidable case. Btw, I tried to mention such behaviour towards you to one of the admins per their constant request, but the admin that responded just insulted me for bringing it up. Keep up the good work. I especially liked your graphics awhile back. How someone can pretend you are a "troll" after such informative posts is beyond me. Basically what's going on is you are bringing up very good points on evo reliance on overstatements and sometimes even hoaxes, and your detractors are trying to quibble than discuss the topic head-on, imo. Edited by randman, : No reason given.
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grandfather raven Junior Member (Idle past 5473 days) Posts: 27 From: Alaska, USA Joined: |
Basically what's going on is you are bringing up very good points on evo reliance on overstatements and sometimes even hoaxes, and your detractors are trying to quibble than discuss the topic head-on, imo.
you're welcome to keep believing this, but, objectively, every point raised by you or the OP has been addressed and debunked repeating something AFTER it's shown to be wrong doesn't magically make it right
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1433 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
This topic seems to be jumping all over the place, and perhaps what we need are some foundations for arguments.
It was discovered in 1922, and used at the Scopes trial in 1925. A nice rendering was done of a one million year old entire race of humanoid by Amedee Forestier who was especially interested in prehistoric man and loved to bring him to life, not by fictitious imaginings but by the most careful reconstructions based on scientific research, and who also drew of all things, Piltdown man. The same “authorities” who “debunked” the discovery at one time, (even a short time) endorsed an entire race of humanity out of one pig’s tooth. Surely, there is a lesson here for us concerning the reliability of so-called "expert testimony," which is so often used to manipulate and intimidate the layman. Several questions: (1) does the fact that a pigs tooth was misinterpreted as a hominid prove that evolution does not occur? that all the massive evidence for evolution must likewise be fictitious? that all evolutionary biologists are then engaged in a world wide conspiracy to deceive the world (no matter what the private beliefs of the scientists are)? OR (2) does the fact that a pigs tooth was misrepresented as a hominid mean (a) some people make mistakes, and some people are dishonest (earthshaking news that) and (b) that the validity of evolution is neither validated nor invalidated? Did the cold fusion fiasco in any way affect the validity of physics? The question in the OP is Why Lie, and the answer is that you don't need to. The fact remains that frauds, hoaxes and fakes are discovered and discarded in the scientific literature all the time, in all sciences, as disproving concepts that are false is what science is a about. Can you name a single evolutionary fraud, hoax or fake that is taught as factual truth? If not then what is the big deal here.
And what is this? Is this KNM-ER 1470? Anthropology | Smithsonian National Museum of Natural History
quote: Are you implying that this fossil is a fake? a fraud? a hoax? Anthropology | Smithsonian National Museum of Natural History
quote: Does the fact that there is some dispute about possible lineage mean that this is not a hominid? Or are going to get a argument based on the problems in dating the fossil as "proof" that all dating is fraught with errors? http://www.archaeologyinfo.com/er1470.htm
quote: Are we going to get an argument that because there was uncertainty on the age of the fossil being 3 million years old and that it has now been dated by more accurate procedures to 1.8 million years mean that the earth is 5000 years old? What exactly is your argument? Enjoy. by our ability to understand RebelAAmericanOZen[Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. • • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •
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Adminnemooseus Administrator Posts: 3976 Joined: |
RAZD writes: This topic seems to be jumping all over the place, and perhaps what we need are some foundations for arguments. It's jumping all over the place and running in circles even when it's on-topic because the topic is pretty broad. Then there have been quite a few way off-topic runs and quite a bit of generally irrelevant sniping at each other. Besides, we're now well past 300 messages which tends to indicate that a fresj start or something is needed. Closing in about 15 minutes. Feel free to propose new more focused topics. Adminnemooseus
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Coyote Member (Idle past 2134 days) Posts: 6117 Joined: |
I have not used the answers in Genesis website as one single source on this entire forum. This is typical. I have a valid arguement, and its not valid enough because YOU said so. My post said websites like Answers in Genesis. The information content of your posts echoes creationist literature and websites; which ones is not an important issue. You do not have a valid argument for a lot of reasons; many of these have been pointed by posters on this thread. In fact, I suspect all of your claims have been rebutted by now. And on some subjects, "that I said so" should count for something as I have actually studied the subject in some depth. I did six years of grad school, with about half of it spend studying evolution, fossil man, osteology, human races, anatomy, primates, and other related subjects. I actually handled and studied most of the important fossils (as casts) that were discovered prior to about 1979. You, on the other hand, have made extravagant claims which you have not been able to back up. I am still waiting for the five forged fossils, and you have not been able to come up with even one additional sample beyond the two I spotted you. I think you should instead come up with an apology for your blatant over-exaggeration and libel of thousands of hard-working scientists worldwide. Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
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