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Author | Topic: Converting raw energy into biological energy | |||||||||||||||||||||||
Chiroptera Inactive Member |
You're making cliams that were never established. Actually, I'm repeating what I said earlier in this very thread. I could tell you what I've read about evolution, the big-bang, super-universes, quantum foam, and all that stuff. Eventually you'd ask a question I can't answer, then I'd have to go look it up. Even If I had the time for that shit, in the end you'd ask a question science hasn't answered yet. So let's save time and skip ahead to "I don't know." -- jhuger
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Rob  Suspended Member (Idle past 5869 days) Posts: 2297 Joined: |
Chiroptera:
Even if the thread's attempted point was accurate, that we have absolutely no knowledge of how the natural development of the cell is possible, that still leaves us with no way to conclude the existence of an intelligent designer of any sort. Any hypothesis requires external evidence to support it before it becomes a contender. Without any evidence that such an intelligent designer exists, then it is not an option for serious consideration (at least not beyond an attempt to see if positive evidence can be found). Thank you for agreeing that the point was established. That was the goal of this thread. It will be the purpose of another thread to establish the evidence that is available for design. It was never this thread's purpose to do that. And it is not an argument against this threads goal. One thing at a time Chiroptera... we have established the one... now we can move on to the other. Edited by Rob, : No reason given.
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Chiroptera Inactive Member |
Even if the thread's attempted point was accurate...that still leaves us with no way to conclude the existence of an intelligent designer of any sort. Thank you for agreeing that the point was established. Um, okay. Sure thing. I could tell you what I've read about evolution, the big-bang, super-universes, quantum foam, and all that stuff. Eventually you'd ask a question I can't answer, then I'd have to go look it up. Even If I had the time for that shit, in the end you'd ask a question science hasn't answered yet. So let's save time and skip ahead to "I don't know." -- jhuger
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Admin Director Posts: 13014 From: EvC Forum Joined: Member Rating: 1.9 |
...summations are not normally an opportunity for further rebuttal and discussion. Those who have already posted their summations should stop posting.
We're past the 300 message limit (Remember my cautions about chat-style exchanges using up all the message bandwidth? Happened fast, didn't it!), but I'll leave this open another day or so for those who haven't yet posted a summation.
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jar Member (Idle past 414 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Possible natural methods to produce the steps involved in converting "raw energy into biological energy."
Remaining questions need to be placed in the "Unknown folder". The case is closed. Aslan is not a Tame Lion |
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Rob  Suspended Member (Idle past 5869 days) Posts: 2297 Joined: |
Sorry Percy... you're right. At the very least, molbiogirl should be allowed to summarize any evidence before the thread is closed. She and I were the primary participants in this debate. I'll hold my tongue after this (restless evil that it is).
Just remember that this debate was about evidence. Any summaries should show either that there is none to date (my view) by critique of the wholly theoretical evidence given by the counter-perspective throughout this thread. Or, they should provide such evidence as has not yet been presented and thoroughly debunked previously. Summaries about the relevancy of evidence, the lack of evidence, or the evidence of the ID position do not address the issue at all, and only serve to confuse and distort the issue. That is why I felt the need to respond to yours and Chiroptera's summaries. They were irrelevant! This thread is not about the evidence for design. It's about the lack of evidence for the theory of abiogenesis. Though all of us meandered from time to time, I think we did pretty well at governing each other. For example, your temporary shutting of the thread was timely. I realize that this puts severe limits on the evolutionary view. Such is the demand of emperical evidence. It reduces the possible summary of the counter-perspective to essentially saying that 'we have no emperical evidence to date, but that we are still looking'. That was the entire point of thread and I am very satisfied with the results. Thank you for allowing me the opportunity to express the problem and ask the questions given to my opponents. I'll now zip-it! molbiogirl, you have the floor...
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Admin Director Posts: 13014 From: EvC Forum Joined: Member Rating: 1.9 |
Rob,
This is a rhetorical question, more something to ponder than to answer. In response to a request for those who have already posted a summation to stop posting, what would you conclude about someone who has already posted a summation but who posts a response with additional summation anyway?
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molbiogirl Member (Idle past 2662 days) Posts: 1909 From: MO Joined: |
In researching adenine for this summary, I found a recent paper by my Organic Chemistry professor here at the University of Missouri:
Scientists have been trying to find the origin of Earth's adenine and where else it might exist in the solar system. University of Missouri-Columbia researcher Rainer Glaser may have the answer ... "The idea that certain molecules came from space is not outrageous," said Glaser, professor of chemistry in MU's College of Arts and Science. "You can find large molecules in meteorites, including adenine. We know that adenine can be made elsewhere in the solar system, so why should one consider it impossible to make the building blocks somewhere in interstellar dust?" Chi said it best:
In fact, the evidence that has been presented in this thread shows quite well that it is entirely possible that the energy conversion processes in the modern cell could have developed naturalistically.
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mike the wiz Member Posts: 4755 From: u.k Joined: |
I've been asked to give a final response on behalf of Rob.
He beleives the evidence is hypothetical and has not been confirmed as of yet. Here is his source link;
No webpage found at provided URL: http://web.missouri.edu/~glaserr/vitpub/PhysOrg_Adenine.pdf may apologies to Molbiogirl and admin - I have not read the topic, and am not agreeing or disagreeing with anything said. (This is my first and LAST response on behalf of Rob, as he did say the topic was about to be closed, which is why I have agreed to this.)
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molbiogirl Member (Idle past 2662 days) Posts: 1909 From: MO Joined: |
http://www.astrobio.net/news/article206.html
A nearby resident, Jim Brook, found the first meteorite fragments while driving homewards on the ice of Taku Arm in Tagish Lake. What Brook had uncovered was an extraterrestrial clue from the early solar system, a 4.5-billion-year-old meteorite. To date, 500 more fragments have been found near Tagish Lake and hundreds have been recovered from the site - many still encased in ice. The delicate charcoal found on Tagish Lake indeed is a rare example of a meteor class called carbonaceous chondrites . an Australian space rock called the Murchison meteorite had captured such excitement and anticipation among meteor experts. That largely charcoal rock held some remarkable clues about how life might have begun, since the biochemistry showed signs of amino acids, the simple building blocks of proteins for cells. http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/lpsc2004/pdf/1022.pdf
The exogenous delivery of organic matter by asteroids, comets, and carbonaceous meteorites could have contributed to the early Earth’s prebiotic inventory by seeding the planet with biologically important organic compounds [1]. A wide variety of prebiotic organic compounds have previously been detected in the Murchison CM type carbonaceous chondrite including amino acids, purines and pyrimidines [2]. . Several purines including adenine, guanine, hypoxanthine, and xanthine, as well as the pyrimidine uracil, have previously been detected in water or formic acid extracts of Murchison .
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Admin Director Posts: 13014 From: EvC Forum Joined: Member Rating: 1.9 |
Hi Mike,
I appreciate that you're just trying to help out a buddy. Rob, This is the order of events:
For your persistent misconduct in posting extra summations and rebuttals when specifically requested not to, and just for generally doing whatever you damn well please, I'm extending your suspension to a week.
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mike the wiz Member Posts: 4755 From: u.k Joined: |
Hi Mike, I appreciate that you're just trying to help out a buddy. Thanks Percy - you cleverly perceive that that is all it was, as I don't intend to be unfair to anyone, but I have a piggy in the middle dillemma. I respect your authority as admin, as I know how the admin here are impartial, and put hard work into this site. I am weak when it comes to doing a good thing, rather than the right thing.
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Ken  Inactive Member |
Alright, this was a great rebuttal (in my own opinion), but Rob requested that I hold my thoughts for now to prevent any incorrect assumptions that I made my post at his request. So, you will all have to sit on the edges of your seats and wait. For now...
Edited by Ken, : No reason given.
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Admin Director Posts: 13014 From: EvC Forum Joined: Member Rating: 1.9 |
I'm going to close this thread now, but I have one last comment.
Ken, I'm sure you're just trying to help out a friend, but Rob was suspended for a week after posting messages to this thread when requested not to, since the thread was only collecting summations and Rob had already posted his summation. After being suspended for misconduct in another thread, not this one, he asked Mike the Wiz to post an additional message of rebuttal to this thread for him, and for this I extended his suspension from 1 day to 1 week. Now he has asked you to post for him in this thread which is only collecting summations right now, and so now I am extending Rob's suspension from 1 week to 1 month. Rob, please stop encouraging others to perform misconduct for you while you're suspended. Each time you do so I will extend your suspension by 1 month. If you'd like to encourage others to debate for you by proxy that will be fine (as long as they're not just typing your messages for you, or even worse, that you're just using their account), but if they break the Forum Guidelines while debating for you I will extend your suspension by an additional month for each misconduct.
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