Vent your frustration here

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Yea sure, a love/hate relationship with the couple loving their conceived version of God, all the while the Biblical God Jehovah and the apostles of his Christ soundly denouncing and condemning the practice as devious to the point of the OT Levitical Law imposing the death penalty on Israelites who practiced it along with adultery and both the OT and NT denouncing it as evil as adultery , fornication, et al.

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So Buz, do you wear mixed fiber clothing, or cut your beard, or eat pork or shellfish? Leviticus says that these things are abominations and forbidden, just like homosexuality.Also, do you believe that disobedient children should be stoned to death along with the homosexuals? Leviticus says they should be.That's what it

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OT Levitical Law imposing the death penalty on Israelites who practiced it

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Is the Levitical law concerning loving relationships or acts that are part of a pagan ritual?You would need to provide scripture that supports that God was against an unmarried man and an unmarried woman having consensual sex or an unbetrothed man or unbetrothed woman having consensual sex.According to the Bible Encyclopedia I have, the word fornication occurs more frequently in its symbolical than in its ordinary sense.Fornication seems to be more associated with wantonness than sex within a loving relationship. The Biblical use deals with unfaithfulness, harlotry, idolatry, adultery, and prostitution. These characteristics would prevent one from loving God as listed above if dealing with pagan rituals and would probably not describe a person who is loving others as themselves. Unfaithfulness is the key word or breaking contracts.Show me that the Bible is talking about sex between two single people who love each other or feel they love each other.As I said above, fornication in the Bible seems to deal more with unfaithfulness or the breaking of contracts.IMO, we need to understand to the best of our ability what they were battling in Biblical times to understand what they intended by their rules.As I said, if the greatest commandments sum the law, then sexual actions need to be viewed under those standards. Sex between loving individuals does not break either of those commandments.

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"Peshat is what I say and derash is what you say." --Nehama Leibowitz

As a believer, I believe that the seeds of sin can start within.For example, Jesus says to not even be angry with your brother, or you're in danger of the commandment; "do no murder".We have thoughts - yes, and the freedom of them, but attraction is infact a feeling, and to think on that feeling is the first step in watering it. "as a man thinks, so he is". At no time is anyone made to act on a desire. Only they can make that choice, (forbidden fruit).If one waters a sinful violent desire, then fantasizes about it, then he has chosen to act upon it already.It might not be immoral to people, but it is sinful and wrong to think of a violent desire, according to God.Some atheists mistakenly think that if they show that morals are relative, then there are not absolutes, and there is no sin. Why on earth would humans' confusion reflect on God?If one "dies to self" at no stage can that feeling be put into action. Therefore, if you die to self, you can't commit adultery because of your choice/will. You know it's evil. You can't commit murder for lust. You can't do anything to anyone else because you put yourself below others. Your desires become irrelevant to your own mind and your own will. Your victory becomes your passive action. You alone suffer, so that others will not.In society, people have rights, and rightly so, I don't dispute it. What I do claim is that God's way will always be the best way, teh absolute moral, because I believe it is the only way to victory over sin. It aims at the individual's will, where all the problems stem from.

I have thought about that too, and in relation to the Roman practices of homosexuality, where it had nothing to do necessarily, with being gay. Even in Sodom and Gomorrha, what are the chances that most of the population was gay? Maybe the towns were a mecca for gay people, but then, we don't even know that the towns existed.I am not sure how much love of spouse figured into Hebrew marriage customs, but I am inclined to thin that the Biblical references to homosexuality were warnings against sexual licentiousness and wanton behaviour as a 'fad'.

No absolute sin - but certainly relative sin. Of course - the problem we have to face is knowing what that is. Since we cannot know what God's will is or isn't we have to make do with figuring out how to live together on earth in the best way we can conceive.

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It might not be immoral to people, but it is sinful and wrong to think of a violent desire, according to God.

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No, not "according to God".According to your personal interpretation of somebody's particular translation of the Christian bible, perhaps.Is wee Mikey claiming to have the last word on God's will these days?Edited by nator, : No reason given.

Well, if one is to not get angry because it can lead to murder, which is against the commandment, then one is to not feed lust because it could lead to rape, murder, adultery, which is against those commandments.This is the wisdom of Christ, not of me. If I have spoken of myself, I couldn't point to Christ's words which are clearly understood.It is clear that Christ is warning against an emotion that CAN lead to violence.God's morals are all-inclusive which means they account for every possible problem.This is why it comes back to the confusion over homosexuals. It's not a matter of homosexual activity, it's that the Mastery of one's mind can only be achieved with the Master who made it. My formula is as shown;- There is God
- There is God's will
- There is the individual's will.Now we have two offshoots.1. The individual who will get in line with God's perfect will.
2. The individual who will not get in line with God's perfect will.Number 2 has no control over his own spirit any longer, and is servant to the flesh. (obeys natural inclinations). Number 1 has the ability to Master his own spirit, and overcome the world and the flesh. (overcomers - Revelation)It is therefore a matter of belief and unbelief.If it is natural therefore permissable, then the serial killer is also justified.If it is consentual therefore permissable, then the sado masachist is also justified, and the adulterer.These worldy morals do not and are not able to defeat sin. They are cleverly created by the sinful mind's ability to tell itself it is righteous.

How does homosexuality or heterosexuality have any relevance to that "mastery of the mind"?

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They can both lead to sin, according to God. Adultery, fornication, etc..In God's perfect world, the individual would follow God's will, which is marriage. Not nature's intention.Nature itself isn't to be obeyed, but God is - according to my irrefutable sources.

IMB, it means that any communion need be spiritual before it ever considers becoming carnal.That is why gay marriage is acceptable as a legal contract but not as a justifiable union. There is no need for two guys to get carnal.

So, you are saying that you know the will of God?

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That is why gay marriage is acceptable as a legal contract but not as a justifiable union. There is no need for two guys to get carnal.

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Define "need" in this context.

Since you know nothing about God's will or "nature's intention", that's a pretty empty statement.

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So, why can't "spiritual communion" be between two people of the same sex as well as two people of different sexes? And if "spiritual communion" somehow transmogrifies into something "carnal" why can't it do the same thing in the same way regardless of same or different sex?

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Just one last word of irrefutablity before this thread goes meltdown. Exactly. God's intention is the reproduction, that's the will of God as it is clear that is the purpose. it is theonly thing acceptable to God, righteous to him, as far as I can see.There is no need to get carnal from God's viewpoint, but there might be from a human viewpoint. However, I don't think it is need - without it you will not die, like if you don't eat or drink.The importance is only placed on it because of humans' subjective outcry for the freedom of it. That in itself is nothing to God - and won't make it holy, IMHO.It is obvious to see - that people desperately want it, and will argue anything to justify it, because they are that way. But all this is useless if God really does not accept it if it's the outcry of the people, for if he sees it as sin, what can we do?It's that we all fail, as God does not change what is absolutely right and absolutely wrong.All sexual deviantism is not justified to God, that people moan about our beliefs, won't change that we believe God is right and they are ....BBBZZZZT, - wrong. That includes heteresexual activity which is not holy, homosexual activity, adultery, masturbation - all of it we are ALL guilty of and all fall short, which is why we need a saviour.