|
Register | Sign In |
|
QuickSearch
Thread ▼ Details |
|
Thread Info
|
|
|
Author | Topic: Political Prognostication | |||||||||||||||||||
RAZD Member (Idle past 1432 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
and try to dig up more photos of him in Muslim garb. Photoshop
the campaign will no doubt use every clandestine opportunity to freak people Don't you wonder when people will get tired of this kind of politics? Enjoy? by our ability to understand RebelAAmericanOZen[Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. • • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •
|
|||||||||||||||||||
Taz Member (Idle past 3319 days) Posts: 5069 From: Zerus Joined: |
Grizz writes:
Which is why a lot of us call last election a battle between urban and rural areas.
Democrats are simply not electable there - Montana as well. I have had to stop alongside the road a few times after missing the road sign -"200 miles until the next service stop."
I know what you mean. My friends and I once missed such a sign, too. We were getting quite desperate when our fuel was getting really really low. Finally, we found a "gas station" in the middle of no where. We paid the guy and he started siphoning the gas into our car with a hand pump.
|
|||||||||||||||||||
Silent H Member (Idle past 5847 days) Posts: 7405 From: satellite of love Joined: |
In this country, in this time, with this central electorate, "black moslem" presents too much of a change.
I guess that I can agree, if for some reason the republican party can stick Obama with such a label, he will have a hard time. However, I don't think most dems would fall for that as they would see it for the trick it is. I don't think most independents will fall for that either. I think the only group that maneuver would effect in any meaningful number are possible republican defections. I don't feel that would be great enough to win an election for McCain, and I don't think super-delegates ought to be keeping that in mind. As it stands, easier than placing that false image on Obama, will be pinning the real image of Bill Clinton on Hillary, or the false specter of Socialism on Hillary. Both are divisive issues which can do more than prevent rep defections. Hillary seems to be more susceptible to labeling than Barak, they can aim for her husband as well and hit the same target. Finally, if McCain tries to use such false labeling on Obama and he fails, I think that might result in a backlash reps would NOT want to see. Given that he had been such a target by Bush, he is likely to appeal to it less anyway, and like I said it would create a backlash as all reps will be seen as overt mud-slingers. He is claiming to be bringing change, that would not be change. h "Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing." - Robert E. Howard
|
|||||||||||||||||||
AZPaul3 Member Posts: 8557 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 4.9 |
In this country, in this time, with this central electorate, "black moslem" presents too much of a change. I guess that I can agree, if for some reason the republican party can stick Obama with such a label, he will have a hard time. And the Republicans will do so under the covers and in the rumor mills of the internet. Already the conservative Talk Radio folk are speaking it up in not-so-hidden terms. But then you have Bob Kerrey in Iowa, after endorsing Clinton, commenting about Hussein and his moslem experiences. These are the Clintons and we have seen in Bill's campaigns and Hillary's Senate campaign they are not beyond getting in the trenches in very subtle ways. If Barak can push Hillary to the ropes, as it appears he is, every button will be pushed including this one. This is politics and Hillary can be very good at it.
|
|||||||||||||||||||
Silent H Member (Idle past 5847 days) Posts: 7405 From: satellite of love Joined: |
Reps will certainly try to stick any label they can on Obama. But there is a difference between trying and succeeding. I can agree the smear you suggest will be one of the more likely to be tried, but do you really think it will sway dems or independents in the general election?
As far as Hillary's people using that tactic... this alone should be good reason for any thinking person not to support Hillary. Your argument about super-delegates taking such smears into consideration for Barack seems to whither away with such a reality about Hillary. I would also note, whatever Hillary does right now, if Obama wins the nomination you will see her machine fight any such slander against him in the general election. After all, look what the Reps made of McCain in the lead up to 2000... and where are all their accusations now? My opinion is that in a general election Obama has the ability to not only energize dems (I don't see him losing many) but also pulling in independents (like myself) and some reps. Hillary simply does not have that kind of clout, particularly against McCain. McCain can at best prevent rep losses with the smear you are suggesting, and would have equal fodder against Hillary (using woman=weak on war, her stated position on the Iraq vote=flip-flopper and weak on war, Bill Clinton back in white house). h "Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing." - Robert E. Howard
|
|||||||||||||||||||
AZPaul3 Member Posts: 8557 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 4.9 |
Reps will certainly try to stick any label they can on Obama. But there is a difference between trying and succeeding. I can agree the smear you suggest will be one of the more likely to be tried, but do you really think it will sway dems or independents in the general election? That is the hypothesis. A black candidate would have a rough time but I think this country has progressed to such a point that national success is achievable. The “moslem” label is quite rough in itself. I do not think a professed moslem can yet win a national election in the US. The combination, “black moslem,” even as a subtle perception, is a definite loser. Sticking the “moslem” label on Obama has already been done, from both sides. Shaking it off will be difficult at best, if not impossible. An interesting aside: The American Jewish community is in a pickle. The Florida community is not so much pro-Hillary as anti-Obama as judged by their letters to local newspapers and reports, all questioning Obama’s “moslem background.” Then the Jerusalem Post in their Feb 21 Editorial not only brought up a moslem connection but tried to tie Obama at the hip to Louis Farrakhan. Anyway, the label has been applied and all that is needed now is to reinforce the perception in subtle ways like Bob Kerrey’s endorsement of Hillary in Iowa, conservative Talk Radio, etc. Watch the papers, editorials, news mags, etc., for the subtle juxtapositions of Obama and moslem and references to Farrakhan. This will get into the minds of the great middle-class voting bloc and stay there. Repeated often enough and subtle enough, the big lie can work its demented magic.
As far as Hillary's people using that tactic... this alone should be good reason for any thinking person not to support Hillary. Your argument about super-delegates taking such smears into consideration for Barack seems to whither away with such a reality about Hillary. My contention is that the super delegates will be wined, dined, twisted, cajoled and threatened into the Hillary camp using the Obama/moslem perception of the middle-class as their reasoning why the party would not succeed with Obama at the top of the ticket. The supers will vote for whatever will help their own chances at re-election and the argument that Obama/moslem is perceived by the electorate, is not going to go away and will thus be a loser for the both the top and down ticket, is an argument that will have force with them.
I would also note, whatever Hillary does right now, if Obama wins the nomination you will see her machine fight any such slander against him in the general election.
I disagree. The Clinton “machine” is wholly personal and self-serving. Without an immediate personal goal on the horizon, should Hillary lose the nomination to Barak, the “machine” will slip quietly into low gear paying periodic lip service to the nominee while trying to soothe its battered ego. Al Gore knows all about this only too well.
|
|||||||||||||||||||
Silent H Member (Idle past 5847 days) Posts: 7405 From: satellite of love Joined: |
Well I disagree with your hypothesis, and... nothing personal... hope you are proven wrong.
Sticking the “moslem” label on Obama has already been done, from both sides. Shaking it off will be difficult at best, if not impossible.
Attempts have been made, but I simply do not see it sticking in any real way. The most you bring up for evidence are small groups who are unlikely to effect the general election, and that is assuming they would choose to vote for McCain out of such errant fears. And I'm still not sure how difficult it would be to shake off, much less that it would be impossible. It isn't true and the facts are there for everyone. I can't see a bald-face lie swinging a general election. I mean if confronted, would McCain publicly state that Obama is not Xian? I don't think he'd be that stupid or mean.
This will get into the minds of the great middle-class voting bloc and stay there. Repeated often enough and subtle enough, the big lie can work its demented magic.
Or we can also repeat that such a thing would be a problem, until people actually believe it. Personally I'm for one of the first nearly pure (for politics) issue centered elections.
The Clinton “machine” is wholly personal and self-serving. Without an immediate personal goal on the horizon, should Hillary lose the nomination to Barak, the “machine” will slip quietly into low gear paying periodic lip service to the nominee while trying to soothe its battered ego.
Whereas I can agree with your cynicism, which is why I'd rather not vote for Hillary, I don't think they'd view a McCain win as worthwhile for themselves at all. The dems really need Prez victory. If that can't win it this year, when will they be able to? McCain is not an idiot like Bush and if he manages to pull the country back to any decent shape, the dems will be locked out for a long time to come. What's worse, he'd act as a great fig leaf for the Bush years. Hillary would be better served with Obama beating McCain, if he beats her. Note that is especially true if she is for healthcare. She might not like his plan, but it beats the hell out of McCain's. h "Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing." - Robert E. Howard
|
|||||||||||||||||||
AZPaul3 Member Posts: 8557 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 4.9 |
Well I disagree with your hypothesis, and... nothing personal... hope you are proven wrong. Nothing personal taken, H. Frankly I hope I am proven wrong. It would mean this country has progressed a lot further than I assess. But, I doubt it. We shall see. On to Denver.
|
|||||||||||||||||||
Dr Jack Member Posts: 3514 From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch Joined: Member Rating: 8.3 |
Sorry mate, I can play guitar effectively, but every attempt at typing tutors has left me throwing my keyboard across the room in frustration. I will attempt to get in the habit of using the shift key more often Might I suggest using 'sticky keys'? I've been stuck typing one handed for the last week and a half due to a broken collarbone and using 'sticky keys' has made it much easier. It means you can tap 'shift' before you hit the key you want in capitals rather than at the same time.
|
|||||||||||||||||||
tesla Member (Idle past 1620 days) Posts: 1199 Joined: |
You mean like just hittin caps lock?
I can type pretty fast, but most of my typing experience was in an online game. And capitols were never necessary. Just being able to understand what spouts out lol. So my shift impairment is mostly habit. I type as the thoughts hit me, and then after review, i go back and have to capitalize all the sentences. I always did well in reading and writing. But i NEVER did well in grammar. Punctuation and sentence structure i could use great improvement. But i have other things in my life that take precedent. It is very unlikely ill ever be in a position where it will even matter. I am attempting improvement here because it as been asked of me. But ill probably never be "spot on". keep your mind from this way of enquiry, for never will you show that not-being is ~parmenides
|
|||||||||||||||||||
Dr Jack Member Posts: 3514 From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch Joined: Member Rating: 8.3 |
No, it's not like hitting caps lock, 'cos it only does it for the next character. It's also a true 'shift' rather than just caps.
|
|||||||||||||||||||
Silent H Member (Idle past 5847 days) Posts: 7405 From: satellite of love Joined: |
Saw this article today on Obama's issues with Jews and thought you might be interested. From the article...
"Right now, Obama's big problem with the Jewish community is similar to his problem with other communities: He's just not clearly defined among any voter groups," said Kenneth Wald, director of Center for Jewish Studies at the University of Florida-Gainesville. "The fact he has a name that sounds Muslim and has a Muslim father underlines questions about what we do and what we do not know about him." That supports your claim about the potential issue, yet...
"There has been a concerted effort, largely out of the conservative Web sites and anonymous e-mails," says Ira Forman, executive director of the National Jewish Democratic Council, which set up a Stop The Smears Web site to correct the rumors. "I don't think it moves tons and tons of votes, but at the fringes, if left unchecked, it could move a few," he said. What's interesting is that this article goes on to make Obama's position on Israel more explicit. That is something I've been worried about for some time, and it unfortunately supported those fears for me. He appears to be a Zionist (saying straight out that Israel must remain a Jewish state, which to me is advocacy of racism/religious intolerance). I may end up voting for Nader after all. Maybe. h "Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing." - Robert E. Howard
|
|||||||||||||||||||
tesla Member (Idle past 1620 days) Posts: 1199 Joined: |
ah i see
If it is a program, I probably wont download it. My computer is fickle. The motherboard is newer than my software and i have glitches on the account of it. I use older software because i need a win proxy full of holes to make an online game work effectively sharing 2 PCs on a dial up 22k down 9k up connection. But i do appreciate your help and suggestion Thanks again Edited by tesla, : spelcheck. <~~~erm spellcheck. keep your mind from this way of enquiry, for never will you show that not-being is ~parmenides
|
|||||||||||||||||||
Dr Jack Member Posts: 3514 From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch Joined: Member Rating: 8.3 |
It's a standard part of Windows. You'll find it in the Control Panel under 'accessibility options' on XP, and 'ease of access' on Vista. You might also be able to activate by just pressing and hold shift for 10 seconds, depending on how your PC is set up.
|
|||||||||||||||||||
Chiroptera Inactive Member |
Here is a current piece on the election by Matt Taibbi. I don't know whether it's informative, but it's deliciously cynical.
{The "Printer Friendly" version, which may also be more on-screen reader friendly. Everything's on one page. - Adminnemooseus} Edited by Adminnemooseus, : See above. There is a tragic flaw in our precious Constitution, and I don't know what can be done to fix it. This is it: Only nut cases want to be president. -- Kurt Vonnegut |
|
|
Do Nothing Button
Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved
Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024