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Author
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Topic: Iconic communication
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Saviourmachine
Member (Idle past 90 days) Posts: 112 From: Holland Registered: 01-16-2004
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Message 1 of 6 (439126)
01-31-2005 10:40 AM
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This topic did catch the attention of Ben, so I am so free to start a thread about it. I hope there are more people interested in it.An iconic language
I'm studying at the moment the possibility of an (universal) iconic language. Not an extension of the old scripts used by American Indians or Chinese, but a modern, new attempt. Along the lines of Visual Inter Lingua [VIL]. Because a non-existing language is difficult to learn from ;-), studies about existing sign languages (e.g. ASL) are appropriate for seeking parallels. A sign language
Therefore it's interesting to have knowledge about: - The conceptual density/accuracy of ASL
- The size of the dictionary
- Lack of concepts (the amount of - the equivalence to - 'onomatopoetic' words; how often relies an user of sign language on finger spelling?)
- Is it true that it costs the same amount of time to describe a concept in spoken language as in a signed language?
- Can ambiguous/new concepts as "I do not believe in the existence of E.I." (extraterrestrial intelligence) can be explained this fast: "I lack belief in the existence of E.I." vs "I disbelieve in the existence of E.I."?
- The difference between a language and a pseudo-language:
- The grade of arbitrariness between signifier and signified?
- Phonological features?
- Easy clarification of ambiguous or new concepts?
Iconic vs pictographic
To clarify: with an iconic language I don't mean an pictographic language, but a language that is also ideographic (with meaning by convention and learning by education). I don't have the idea that an pictographic language would suffice to communicate all kinds of concepts. It would be an icon algebra rather than a iconic language. Universality
Attemps to develop universal languages are interesting. Gestuno, Esperanto. Keywords: Ideographic restrictions, sign language deficiencies, feature-based languages, pidgins vs creoles, lambda calculus.
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Loudmouth
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This type of communication was used in the sci-fi book "The Diamond Age" by Neal Stephenson. In the book, this type of language was used by the lower classes while written languages were more for the upper classes. It's one of my favorite books, you might want to read it sometime.
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Saviourmachine
Member (Idle past 90 days) Posts: 112 From: Holland Registered: 01-16-2004
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Message 3 of 6 (439128)
02-01-2005 2:37 PM
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Reply to: Message 2 by Loudmouth
02-01-2005 1:19 PM
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Adapted nomenclature
Adapted nomenclature
I'd like to know if there are studies that try to adapt 'ordinary' linguistic nomenclature and extended it to embed sign languages as well.Terminology as (level & units): - phonetics, phones
- phonology, phonemes
- morphology, morphemes
- lexicon, lexemes
- syntax, 'syntagmemes'
- semantics, 'sememes'
- pragmatics, utterances
Maybe it's more interesting to classify over different domains in stead of old approaches like e.g.:- Background; physical {1}, psychological {7} or mathematical {3}
- Reductionism; trying to find units {most}
- Representation: storage {4}, display {3} of oral data {1}, rules and structure {3}
- Intentional use: to preserve {4}, produce a language {1}
They are all right in some way, but it's very difficult to see through all these taxonomies / classifications. So, an unified approach of both spoken, gestured, written and notated (SignWriting) language I'd find very, very interesting.Keywords: linguistic & gestural terminology, taxonomy, categorization, classification, nomenclature ____
Hi Loudmouth, thanks for the title. This is the second time I hear it, so I'll make a note about it. :)
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 2 by Loudmouth, posted 02-01-2005 1:19 PM | | Loudmouth has not yet responded |
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Saviourmachine
Member (Idle past 90 days) Posts: 112 From: Holland Registered: 01-16-2004
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Message 4 of 6 (439129)
02-01-2005 3:57 PM
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Remarkable
Funny thing I found.Right-footed parrots do have a significant larger lexicon than left-footed parrots (source).
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Brad McFall
Member Posts: 3428 From: Ithaca,NY, USA Registered: 12-20-2001 Member Rating: 5
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Re: Remarkable
The reason I was able to provide a different view of herps than biologists do of birds and fish combined is because rather than focus on the TRIPOD look to bird feet which my grandfather was describing I saw the colors of amphibians and reptiles IN DETAIL. It's all in the feet for the birds and that's all for the birds for me. THIS means that one could track biogeography from the southern to northern hemisphere in ways that are not symmetrical. The formal diagrams of systematics however DO NOT represent this asymmetry and thus birds might have been eating more than bread crumbs. Can they eat more than ants?Both my parents went to Allegeny college and my Grandfather taught in that water near by. IYI, this is also why I consider the grammer in Gould's conceptual master piece on Pigeon wing color and his three "legggs" (orthogons)image disingenuous as to even the currency he wishes he had afforded but Dakwins' disclaimed and discounted in kant's final cause. This message has been edited by Brad McFall, 02-01-2005 16:21 AM
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 4 by Saviourmachine, posted 02-01-2005 3:57 PM | | Saviourmachine has not yet responded |
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Phat
Member Posts: 5246 From: Denver,Colorado USA Registered: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 3
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Ideas about communication
Have you ever read any of Marshall McLuhans writings? The man had some innovative ideas about media, language, and communication in general. His writing can be found online:
http://heim.ifi.uio.no/~gisle/overload/mcluhan/um.html
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 1 by Saviourmachine, posted 01-31-2005 10:40 AM | | Saviourmachine has not yet responded |
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