Howard Dean was right!

Deleted. Premature post.This message has been edited by Jazzns, 06-14-2005 01:09 PM

And that is exactly what is wrong with your position schraf!Criticizing people, exercising free speech, thinking for yourself, being a yeoman spirit; these are the plague of liberal ideas that are poisoning our country. Our founding fathers would turn in their graves a full 360 degrees if they knew the kind of ideas you represent. That is why you are considered a bleeding heart liberal by our esteemed and rationally minded colleagues. Liberals would have it so that freedom, equality and civil rights were paramount to government which would totally ruin the ideological goals of our friends party. You fit in perfectly into this stereotype.Cant you see exactly why it is right to say you are on the opposition TEAM. You oppose intolerance and stupidity. So of COURSE you are part of the opposition. Why would you try to deny such a thing?{Sorry for the false start. Needed my dose of sarcasm for the day.}

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When did you ask this? I don't remember such a question from you?

Message 98At the bottom.

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Indeed. But it's not his job to shear off votes from the Republican base (as though such a thing were possible.) It's his job,mainly, to fundraise.Of course drinking coffee is irrelevant to a conversation about Howard Dean. So too is the fact that his comments don't impress the Republican base. Didn't you catch that from my post, or are you having reading problems? You can't argue with the numbers. They have a right to their view. Many grassroots Democrats disagree. As I said fundraising is the highest it's been in years, and most of that new money is small, private donations. So clearly he's doing something right. I'd like to see him keep in the same vein as well, but what about his comments do you believe is "shrill"? Certainly nothing you've posted so far would be described that way.

Ok, thanks, I missed that.

If you say so. I haven’t been on this site very long and maybe you have been critical of Democratic positions, but since I’ve been here, I haven’t seen you do anything other than severely criticize Bush and Republicans. Has there been anything at all you agree with Bush about? Anything at all? Just one thing? It may seem that I support Republicans no matter what they do. But that’s not true. I have my disagreements. I’ve been critical of conservative positions on more than one occasion. You probably haven’t noticed it because when it comes to criticizing Bush on this board, it’s a stampede.Ok, then, I’ll step up to the plate and accept your challenge. Here is my top 10 list of issues, (Not in any order). BTW, I don’t plan to debate each of these positions in this thread, I’m just posting them to show you that I do have issues with some Republican positions. These may not all be policy issues or elected officials as you questioned in your last post, they are just issues where I found myself in disagreement with the Bush administraion.

1. Death Penalty
   I oppose it. I believe it is sufficient punishment to lock up someone for the rest of their life regardless of how heinous the crimes. Some would argue this approach gives tacit approval to those criminals already serving life sentences, that they would be able to kill in prison with impunity. Maybe, but those individuals can be dealt with in ways that would protect the remaining prison population. They can be segregated or put in isolation among other methods. It seems to me that life in prison without the possibility of parole is sufficient punishment and does not require taking another life.
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2. Post War Iraq
   I supported the war effort and believed it was the right thing to do. But it has become obvious that despite the magnificent execution of the war itself, not enough planning was done for the aftermath. It took entirely too long to get the Iraqis police force trained and many areas were not properly secured.
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3. Abu Ghraib Prison Scandel
   This was stupid and hurt our cause around the world. I don’t necessarily hold the administration officials responsible for the actions of lower ranking enlisted personnel, but it was an unnecessary and unfortunate episode that served to further erode our reputation abroad.
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4. Guantanamo Bay
   Although there has not been any substantiated accusations of abuse at Gitmo, there have been hints and rumors that the situation is not as the military would have the public believe. If it comes to light that more abuses were and are present at Gitmo, then I would have to lay the blame squarely on Rumsfeld. I gave him a pass at Abu Ghraib, but not at Gitmo. He has had plenty of time to examine what happened at Abu Ghraib and take corrective action by making sure that something similar does not happen at Gitmo.
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5. Federal Deficit
   I don’t begrudge spending for the war effort and despite the huge deficit, we must complete that mission. But there needs to be more restraint. Republicans no longer talk about balancing the budget. The deficit is out of control and will be a significant albatross for Republicans in ’08.
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6. Gay Marriage Amendment
   I oppose it. Gay people are going to do what they’re going to do anyway. That’s the lifestyle they were either born with or have chosen to adopt. I don’t know which it is and frankly I don’t care. I never understood the Christian right’s strong support of this Amendment. Some say the sanctity of marriage will erode without it. I don’t know how this will happen. I believe it is those individuals in the marriage who determine the sanctity of the marriage.
   ​
   The source of Christian opposition can’t be a matter of increasing the ranks of gays because I don’t believe there is a single gay person who would choose a different lifestyle just to have the benefits of marriage. Conversely, I don’t see hetero’s reconsidering their lifestyle just because gay marriage is available. So the numbers on either side will not change regardless of whether the Amendment passes or not. How can there be erosion if the same number of heterosexual couples get married? The Bible speaks of the gay lifestyle as being immoral. Fine, then let the gays keep their immoral lifestyle and leave them alone. God will judge.
   ​
   If gay people live together, own a house together, share their vacations together and essentially do all the things that married couples do outside of the bedroom, they should not be denied the same benefits that married couples are entitled to.
   ​
   Adoption is a little more difficult for me because it involves the welfare of another life. Although I believe the best marriage environment for a child is one with a father and mother, I must admit there are many situations where I would rather see a child in a healthy, loving homosexual household than in a dysfunctional heterosexual household.
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7. Shiavo Case
   I believe the Bush administration was overreaching when it attempted to interfere in the case. The decisions of life or death in cases like Shiavo’s should be a State court issue. The Federal courts should not be involved. President Bush was way out of line to rush a bill through Congress mandating another review of Teri’s case.
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8. Douglas J. Feith
   Feith was Undersecretary of Defense for policy and one of the most hawkish civilians in the Pentagon. Although he announced his resignation in January, I believe he stayed on too long and held undue influence with Bush. Feith was unrealistic about the cost and outcome of invading Iraq and it appears he played a critical, behind-the-scenes role in exaggerating the prewar threat from Hussein. Feith had other issues. If you’re interested, look them up yourself.
   ​
9. New Missile Defense system
   Currently, the military spends $3 billion per year on research for a new missile defense system. Given the current federal deficit, a terrorist threat having nothing to do with long range missiles, and the available stockpile of missiles we already have, it seems to me this money could be used elsewhere.
   ​
10. Press Conferences
    Bush doesn’t have enough of them. He doesn’t like to do them, but he should force himself.

This message has been edited by Monk, Wed, 06-15-2005 12:02 AM

Shrill may have not been the best adjective. Inflammatory is a better term to describe these comments:"I hate the Republicans, what they stand for, good and evil, we are the good."and"Republicans are brain dead."Substitute Democrat for Republican in the statements above. What would be the uproar if they were spoken by a Republican?Wouldn't you and others on the left declare those statements as evidence of the "Fourth Reich" if they came from Bush?

Too many syllables for Bush to manage. He can't handle words of more than one syllable and has troubles even then.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Ah, I see. So you agree with Schrafinator who thinks that Bush is either "retarded" or brain damaged from all those years of "drinking and drugging"

That's a kind description. I certainly don't think he's as evil as his dad or Reagan.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

If that's kind then what your description of Bush?

The kid? He's a front for some very very bad people, the remnants of his Dad's gang. He's pretty much just a cardboard standup, something to put in the window for the public to stare at so they don't notice the other folk marking up prices 300% before the big half-off sale.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

You're a sick monkey

Well the problem is that Bush is the president and so prime policy maker since 2001, so there really isn't much to talk about regarding Dems, especially when you add in that Reps have essentially owned all the other branches of gov't as well.Thus everyone and anyone SHOULD be talking about Bush and Reps and nothing else. And what's more the track record of this president and the Reps in the other branches have been historic... historically bad.We have had the worst attack in US history on US soil due to negligence, we have had the worse job loss and economic slump in some period of time, we managed to alienate some of our strongest allies, we managed to rebuild the deficit that a Dem happened to just get us out of as well as move to a wildly imbalanced budget (which I might note is against Rep principles), we managed to move toward greater federal control of states and personal lives as well as growing the gov't. Oh yes and we managed to violate international law to invade a nation which posed no threat to us simply in order to "nation build", one of the loudest complaints of Reps over the last 5 years of the Clinton presidency.When people perform that badly there is a reason for the stampede, and it is not reasonable to assume where there is a stampede there must be no justification.What's more it is not "fairplay", much less "honest" to lash back at Dems and try to defend Bush and Co just because there is a stampede of criticisms against him.Reading your list I have no undestanding of why you defend Bush at all. You might also want to add "Richard Perle" to the Feith entry. They were both paired hawks which did the same essential job.How about undercutting our intelligence credibility around the world?How about Ashcroft and his diverting resources from counterterrorism to prosecution of adult porn in the lead up to 9/11? How about our current moves to redivert resources from counterterrorism to prosecuting adult porn? I'm still furious that got so little coverage.How about awarding the nation's highest civilian medals to three guys that unquestionably failed to do their jobs, just because the Prez wanted to add some glitz and official award to his policies? That totally devalued our system of honoring those of service to this nation.I'm almost interested in hearing what you think Bush did do that could counter the rather large problems you just described yourself?

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holmes
"...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)