Spherical Issues

quote:

---

The co-ordinated can be 1, and the x, y z be given any quantitites which will apply to the conclusion.

​

(I’m not so generous that I would assume this to be equivalent to my first two paragraphs, but if it was meant to be it is no wonder you’re having trouble with the concept.)

​

The x, y and z are merely the three axes of a 3D rectangular coordinate system. Any point that satisfies the equation x2 + y2 + z2 = R2 will be a point on the surface of an origin centered sphere with radius R. A unit sphere has a radius of 1, which allows us to simplify the equation to x2 + y2 + z2 = 1.

​

As all points on the surface of a sphere are R distance away from our origin ” the center of the sphere proper ” then the specific length of R is irrelevant to which, if any, of the infinite number of values that would satisfy the above equation and also satisfy the conditions of a “center”.

​

It was, therefore, not necessary to give any value for R, nor were any “actuals” requested.

---

Yes, actuals were requested, while abstracts were tended as the given data. Yes, it is necessary to first convert the abstract to actuals, before asking an answer in that mode.

quote:

---

But there is an issue of a surface center when actual measurements are not given, and its answer required in actuals conversion.

​

No, not really, there isn’t. This is one of the things that instantly gives away that you are too unfamiliar with the subject to warrant an authoritarian participation in a discussion of the topic.

---

You have stated three times I am unfamiliar with the subject. But you have not given an answer in actuals. Hint.I remind you, I was responding to the premise that the universe has no center, and I countered that with it does and must have a center. This was followed by an example made of abstracts as proof of no center, and again I countered that the abstract too has a center - an abstract one. An expanding entity also has a center - a variable one, in precise appropriation of its variable expansions. Even non-existing entities have centres - non-existent ones.

quote:

---

Asked to find the center of the line whose end points are Pa (xa, ya) and Pb (xb, yb) one can easily define the center as Pcenter (xa + xb/2, ya + yb/2). No one has asked for an “actual”, and no one has given an “actual”, yet the question was satisfied.

---

No, it was not satisfied. If one asks for the centre of a surface, with no historical/impirical factors concerning that 'surface' - he will not be able to give an historical answer where that centre is: but that surface does have a centre. This also means, an abstract, academically described surface has a centre - no identifiable, impirical centre, but in the academic and abstract mode it was tended in, a surface does have a centre in the abstract.CONCLUSION: ALL THINGS, INCLUDING THE UNIVERSE, DOES HAVE A CENTRE.

quote:

---

One can not define the center of the surface of a sphere, nor define the end of a torus, nor count the number of licks* to the center of a Tootsie Pop® because they don’t exist. Given any set of values in any set of units will not make it possible.

​

*The number of licks is the nonexistent value not the sweet Tootsie Roll®center.

---

Disagree. All those things have centers - in the equivalent mode they are presented. An invisable square has an invisable center; a non-existing sphear has a non-existing center. One can only say an invisable sphear does not have a center if we first preamble there is no such thing as an invisable sphear, but not so as its conclusion - because we have already acknowledged an invisable sphear by the question. The rule is:Hypotheticals exist - in the hypotheticals.Edited by Admin, : Change title.

IaJ, I'm going to say this in the nicest way I possibly can:You don't know what you're talking about. A 3rd grade child has a better grasp of nuclear physics than you do of this very simple topic.So, here's an actual example for you, since you can't seem to work with abstracts:What is the latitude and longitude of the center of the surface of the Earth? Not the coordinates of the core; what is the latitude and longitude of the center of the surface only?Is the center of the surface at a point on the equator? The North or South Pole? Chicago Illinois? A random point in the Atlantic?What is the location of the center of the surface, and what is your reasoning for choosing that specific location?

Firstly, your use of the English language seems rather absurd and I suspect specifically designed to not be understood, therefore setting your opponent continually off balance. Even when an opponent does think he has managed to glean your meaning he has no way to be sure.The English language has been invented already, but if you insist on doing it again you can start by defining “actuals” for me. As you have used the word in context with such phrases as “5 degrees” , “2 km” , miles and centimeters, I’ve assumed by "actual" you mean actual or specific values and units. But, you see, I don’t know this because your bloated prose aren’t user friendly.I intend to stop the discussion every time you use a word or phrase that I think peculiar and request a translation. It would be far easier on us both if you’d just use the colloquial right off the bat. If you have to pretend I'm 10 to do it, do it.Secondly, I’m going to hound one point at a time. I’m not going to try to remember ten points you haven’t bothered to answer all at the same time. Serially, fine. In a lump, not on your life.Point one:After you define “actuals”, the question put before you, and a question to be put before you anon, was: What are the coordinates of the center of the surface of a sphere? What “actuals” are asked for?I’ll walk this point backward until I reach the base of our disagreement if I have to go back to 2^nd grade arithmetic class and walk it back up to Geometry 101 before I’ll consider another point, so don’t waste time.P.S. I have read the entire post.P.P.S. I have had several surgeries in the last few weeks, and I'll be in again Tuesday morning. I'll respond as I am able.Edited by lyx2no, : Emphasize "don't waste time".

---

KindlyTa-da ≠ QED

The 'surface' is an abstract term, is my point. It's center is thus only in the abstract center of an abstract surface.I agree this is basic 101 logic, and its deficiency has nothing to do with my lack of undertsnading.

quote:

---

What is the location of the center of the surface, and what is your reasoning for choosing that specific location?

---

What 'location' - your question is an abstract one, because it is based on an abstract surface?! Here, the ony correct answer is, the location of the 'surface' is in the centre of that 'surface'; no location need be pointed to here.The centre of a string xyz long = xyz divided by half of xyz.

Hello Rahvin:May I put you to service as a witness as it were? Has the question been satisfied?I’ll be quoting you at some point down the line. I sense it will be very far down the line.

---

KindlyTa-da ≠ QED

Knock, knock. The issue was not that

quote:

---

No one has asked for an “actual”,

---

I suggest you go back to the thread and check the correct status of the issue. If no actuals were asked for, there is no issue with your 101 brilliance. Hello?Just as your answer does not need an actual, the notion of proving the universe has no center, by providing abstract equations as its proof, does not prove the motion. Your failure is not that your proved yourself right - but that you did not take on the poster who said the universe has no center. I took issue with that poster. That is the sole issue here.

Point one:After you define “actuals”, the question put before you, and a question to be put before you anon, was: What are the coordinates of the center of the surface of a sphere? What “actuals” are asked for?I’ll walk this point backward until I reach the base of our disagreement if I have to go back to 2^nd grade arithmetic class and walk it back up to Geometry 101 before I’ll consider another point, so don’t waste time.

---

KindlyTa-da ≠ QED

quote:

---

After you define “actuals”, the question put before you, and a question to be put before you anon, was: What are the coordinates of the center of the surface of a sphere? What “actuals” are asked for?

---

My response was at all times with Rrhaim, who provided abstracts, and asked for an actual centre. I at no time debated that an abstract does not have a center, only that its actual location cannot be derived thereby.RrHain stated the universe has no centre, then went on to prove his point by providing abstracts. I said nothing exists w/o a centre - I stand by that.

quote:

---

Incorrect. There is no center. That's why everything looks the same no matter where you are. Since everything is equivalent, then there is no way to distinguish one point from another. And since there is no way to distinguish a "center" from a "non-center," then there is no such thing as a center.

---

In the above, I pointed out his error, namely that everything is not equivalent: he failed to recognise that everything does not look the same, but the position has changed when moving from one point to another. Every point has its centre - it becomes indistinquishable only when we move on to another point. My position is, in contrast of the majority and scientific premise, the universe does and must have a centre, even if we cannot detect it. If something has a beginning, it is finite, and as such such must have an end, even a variable one, and thus also a centre.I further stated that the universe itself is the centre, from a point which has expanded to its current and further expanding size, since the BB. If one was put inside a marble, and that marble expanded to the size of the universe - the only way to view the centre would be from outside of the marble/universe. But there is no question the marble has a centre in it's expansionism: it is a variable center, in a variable universe.

quote:

---

The question to you is: Which point in the locus x2 + y2 + z2 = 1 is the center of the locus? The point you choose needs to satisfy the locus.

---

The above is another example given by Rrhain, which I called casino maths. It is like saying:Potatoes = 1.Which is the centre?

What “actuals” are asked for?don’t waste time.

---

KindlyTa-da ≠ QED

I have read every word of these arguments. Their repetition is not the resolution. Your statements are wrong. Your supporting arguments are wrong. Or I am wrong. If I am wrong you should be able to tell me what "actuals" are and what "actuals" were asked for.

---

KindlyTa-da ≠ QED

Just quoting randomly from the opening post: This appears to be a science thread masquerading as a Coffee House topic, so I'm closing it. I encourage discussion on this topic, but in the proper forum.To IamJoseph:You created this thread because you were asked to cease participating in the red-shift & the center of the universe? thread because you were posting nonsense (for instance, "I cannot stand on the surface of the earth - "physically"; only in the academic can I do that.") and demonstrating an inability to follow the discussion (for example, "I challenge you, or anyone else, to give us the radius of a sphere's surface - in units of miles.")If you'd like to try one more time then go ahead and resume contributing to that thread, but please take care to make sense. You might want to check out a webpage on basic geometry first. The first time I see you posting nonsense there again I will again request that you leave the thread.Edited by Admin, : Add title.

---

--	Percy
	EvC Forum Director

Thread moved here from the Coffee House forum.

Participate in this thread at your own risk. Other than keeping discussion focused on the topic and making noncombatants off-limits, no rules are enforced here.

---

--	Percy
	EvC Forum Director

IamJoseph:What are the coordinates for the center of the surface of the earth?The earth is an actual place. It has an actual surface.Thus, where is the actual center of the actual surface of the actual earth?Edited by Rrhain, : No reason given.

---

Rrhain

---

Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time.