Black Rednecks and White Liberals (by Thomas Sowell)

Don't you know anything, Crash? Racism comes from the fact that black men do, in fact, want to rape white women, while white people are averse to rape. It comes from the fact that gay people do want to molest your children, while straight people are averse to molestation. And it comes from the fact that Jews are, in fact, clawed, hook-nosed monsters that want to claim the world for their Zionist banking masters, while Christians are averse to world conquest.These were all very real sociological patterns, to which racists are simply responding with aversion.

Really? Somebody call the APA; "destructive mentalities", after all, constitute mental illnesses. I'm sure you're just about to present Sowell's qualifications as a psychologist as well as the peer-reviewed research he's based his conclusions on.No? Oh, come on. You don't have ridiculous, expensive hobbies? How much do your golf clubs cost, NJ? Or your running shoes? How many guns do you own?I've got at least four computers around a 2-bedroom apartment. The one I'm using now, my wife's machine, the MythTV box that records TV shows, and the Mac laptop that we take on the road and my wife does her research on. Are my "priorities out of whack?" Or am I just an adult who makes choices about what to do with his disposable income? I use Firefox as well, but Firefox is a web browser, not a PDF reader. Acrobat is a plug-in and it works just fine with Firefox. PDF is a web standard, as well as the standard format for reading published journal articles, so you're not going to get very far at EvC without it. Where "crappy" = "black-sounding." Look, they researched the reasons, too, and they found out race was the cause. It had nothing to do with impressions of work ethic, or social status, except as those conclusions stemmed from the impression that they were looking at a black person's resume.Just read the research, ok? It doesn't make any sense for you to try to rebut research that you haven't even read. You're just arguing from your assumption that racism isn't as prevalent as it is, but your assumption is demonstratively incorrect. We're not talking about "odd names." We're talking about black names. Would you call a name like "Yoshi" or "Sergio" odd? Why are names only "odd" when black people have them?Because of racism. No, this is how racism works: "Huh, this guy has a great resume but his name is 'Cornelius'; he's probably a black dude so clearly he had affirmative action the whole way, and he's probably lazy and angry to boot. You know, it's just like my old man used to say, you just can't trust a nigger. Huh, lemme see John Smith's resume. Hrm, felony conviction for robbing his last employer, but he's almost certainly a white guy. Let me just call him up..." (In research, a black man was less likely to be called back than a white man with the exact same resume qualifications plus a felony conviction for stealing from employers, that's how racist the hiring market is.) I don't know what the hell you're talking about. You've never heard of the Genteel Antebellum South? Or Cajuns? Snowbird Floridians? How racist do you have to be to assume that every state south of the Mason-Dixon line is populated entirely by people with cars sitting on cinderblocks out on their lawns?

Good job completely twisting everything I wrote. I guess I can justifiably assume, by default, that you are a racist simply by virtue that you were born white.

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"A man can no more diminish God's glory by refusing to worship Him than a lunatic can put out the sun by scribbling the word, 'darkness' on the walls of his cell." -C.S. Lewis

You said that stereotypes formulate from the attitudes, mannerisms, and behavior of those being stereotyped.Unless we assume that black men do rape white women, gay men do molest children, and Jews do spread their dark spectre of vampiric usury across the globe, in numbers that qualify as a "sociological pattern", you're full of shit. No twisting necessary.

Making bad life choices does not allow one to use the piss poor defense of mental illness. No, I'm poor. I don't have that luxury. About the most expensive hobby I had was when I was actively drumming. I no longer play because I can't afford it. I've never owned any golf clubs. I don't know what they cost because it was presented to me as a gift. One. And I don't know what it cost either because this was also presented to me as a gift. That all depends on your income. If you chose to buy your MythTV box instead of paying your bills, then, yes, you're priorities are all out of whack. If you can afford such niceties then I don't see a problem. However, if someone can't afford a decent car, it likely means that they are not very wealthy. And if they aren't very wealthy but opt to rims that are more expensive than the vehicle itself, don't you think that's a terrible transaction? Don't you think the "bling-bling mentality" has superseded any legitimacy of the rims at that point? Yeah, we uninstalled Adobe a few weeks ago. Maybe I need to change my settings. All I'm saying is that bizarre names have been shown to reduce a persons chances of even getting a call back, whether the name is perceived as being black or not. The point is, racism may not be the culprit in all of, or even most of the cases. Secondly, when you apply for a job, all of your credentials and contact information are provided with the name. Nobody sends in a resume with just a name. If they do, that's the reason they don't get a call back. I'll ask my wife about the Adobe thing. She's the IT, not me. I wish I was a savvy as she was about computers. Crash, I don't doubt that such things have happened. I really don't. But perhaps you don't take in to consideration that weird names, period, play a vital role. I mean, either way, its discrimination. And its really fickle, especially when considered that we don't name ourselves. But when I can open your link, I will let you know what I think. No. But maybe that's because I grew up in Miami where such names are common. Not all black names are odd. You know, if someone was named Billy Bob, which to me is a weird name, what would that invoke? Wouldn't people think of some hillbilly who doesn't have a lick of sense? Maybe. That's not right to not call somebody in for an interview just for that, but would you consider that racist if a black-owned company simply assumed that Billy Bob was a racist just because of his name? Wouldn't that be racist, or at least, discriminatory in the same context, just in reverse? Give me a break. Are you telling me that your research shows that a man with a felony conviction was chosen, just because he was presumed white, over what was a presumed a black man, just because of his name? I was speaking about the antebellum South, not the South as we see it today. I'm from the South. I obviously wouldn't implicate myself in such an indictment. I was specifically referring to slaves who had no one else to model after except their slave owners.

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"A man can no more diminish God's glory by refusing to worship Him than a lunatic can put out the sun by scribbling the word, 'darkness' on the walls of his cell." -C.S. Lewis

So now it's about choices, is it? And you know better than millions of people what choices they should make? Well, that's "small-government conservatism" for you. So, naturally, you begrudge those that do. Especially if they're an "uppity nigger." Why? Why is a more expensive car something someone has to have? Maybe they like their old car, and they want some rims on it.I seriously don't see what you're on about, except for a big ol' helping of self-pity mixed in with some class envy. Bizzare to white people, you mean. Answer the question. Are "Yoshi" or "Sergio" weird names? Or do you recognize those names as entirely normal in the cultures that they're from?So why not extend the same break to black people? Names like "Condoleeza", after all, are completely normal and natural to the culture in which those names belong. But because you flag them as "black" (and because it's becoming pretty clear you have some major racist tendancies), they're suddenly "bizzare".That's racist. I don't understand your point. These resumes did have credentials and contact information.Do you just not understand the research? You really need to read these articles before you attempt to respond to them, don't you think? Well, I have another explanation. I suspect you don't want to hear it. I'm telling you that exact situation happened over and over again, in the research. Identical resumes (with the exception of the felony conviction added to the white man's application), different names, much greater likelihood of the white application/resume getting called back than the black one, even with the felony conviction on the white application.The name and the felony conviction were the only two things different on the applications. Obviously, the race the name implied was the deciding factor. Who you think were rednecks? No, you're not from the South.Edited by crashfrog, : No reason given.

Some reality.1966I was fired from my job as an Optician and blackballed throughout the city for sitting with some blacks at a lunch counter.1967Surveyed a small town as possible site to build a CATV system. Billboard on highway leading into town says "Nigger, don't let the sun set on you here." Signed by the local sheriff.Late 60s.My wife was a school teacher, and recent graduate of what is now UNCG but at the time was called Women's College. She was an art teacher and had accepted the position of Art Teacher at one of the all black middle schools in Greensboro, NC. When she arrived at her class she found that her art supplies for the year consisted of one 50lb block of clay.At that time, over half the streets south of the tracks in Greensboro were unpaved and most homes down there did not have city water or sewage.We spent almost every cent she made buying basic supplies like paper and pencils and chalk and crayons and paints and books and pictures for her class. In the evenings I helped repaint the classroom, fix some of the desks, change out light bulbs that had burned out and lamp sockets that didn't work.When she showed up the next year to get her class ready for the students, she found that many of the supplies had "Been transfered" over the summer.1974 (IIRC)One of my draftsmen doesn't show up for work. He calls me. Seems he is in jail for car theft.He had just gotten a raise and promotion to Senior Draftsman. I was pretty proud of him. He was working with us during the day and going back to college at night to study EE.His sister worked as a maid for a family that had held a party the night before. When the party ended and all the cleanup finished, she called her brother to come get her in the new (it was about 10 years old but he had bought it from a friend during lunch hour that day) car he had just purchased.As they drove home they were stopped by the police. Just what was a nigger doing in an upscale white neighborhood at 2 in the morning? He did not have a current registration for the car and so the police arrested him, towed his car to the pound, and left his sister on the curb to fend for herself.I called a friend (later to be a Congressman and Judge) and explained what had happened. The TOTAL communication was my telling my white lawyer friend that the guy worked for me, had bought the car the day before and that he was a good guy.Within 15 minutes my draftsman was freed, the police went to the impound yard and brought the car to him, and he was on his way to work.Within 30 minutes I had a personal call from the Sheriff apologizing for locking up "my boy"."My Boy" NEVER received an apology from the police and was told he had best stay outta such neighborhoods in the future.Anyone who claims that racism is based on "From the attitudes, mannerisms, and behaviors of one race, another race starts to notice some sociological patterns that they are averse to..." is quite frankly, clueless.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Buying rims when you're dirt poor instead of paying your bills and taking care of business is just stupid, to put it as bluntly as I can. Obviously, not everyone that owns rims is poor. Its not about the rims, its about how a mentality that compels people to make a bad choice.

quote:

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No, I'm poor. I don't have that luxury.

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More fabrications, distortions, and lies to further your agenda. If I can't afford a nicety, which rims are, because they have no other function other than looking pretty, then I won't buy them. If any one from any race opted to buy rims when they can't really afford it without neglecting more important matters is just silly. Have you ever heard of the phrase, "you get what you pay for?" If you buy a used 91 Honda Civic, chances are, you're not very wealthy. If you bought a vehicle like that for $300.00 outright, you're probably not doing it because you like 91 Honda Civic's. Slapping rims on that moving scrap metal tells me that somebody has their priorities all out of whack. Are you seriously going to disagree with that? Self-pity mixed in with class envy? LOL! I'm speaking about people with class envy, remember? People who buy rims as if we're somehow going to overlook the fact that the car needs a jumpstart every time they get to a stoplight. No Crash. I already advanced two names. How good are Sunbow's chances of being taken seriously? How about Billy Bob? I recognize them from the cultures that they derive from. You're the only one that says they don't. I'm simply telling you that its been demonstrably shown that giving your child an odd name lessons their chances later in life. I agree with you that its a bunch of BS, but it exists. You are trying to set up for yourself some kind of monopoly where that only extends to you black people when that isn't true. I doubt that Condoleeza is very common anywhere. In fact, in the African-American culture there is an attempt for many families to have for their children completely uniquely invented names. LOL! More of your lies. I haven't spoken about Condoleeza Rice in a positive light? Haven't spoken about MLK in a positive light? How about Thomas Sowell? How about Malcolm X? No, not Malcolm X because he was a racist, among other things. You are making so that I can't say anything bad about anyone black, otherwise, Crashfrog and the PC police are going to accuse me of "racist tendencies."This is so beyond ridiculous that I don't even know what I can say about it. You know, in my younger, more militant days, I used to roll with the Florida chapter of the S.H.A.R.P's. I physically fought Nazi-skins over their beliefs, until I realized that it was terribly counterproductive. I'd really love to see this study. Who conducted it and what were the parameters of the study? That's my whole point Crash. How can rednecks, by today's standard, be upset with blacks today who have retained the very behavior of their own ancestors, the antebellum rednecks? What? I was as far south as it gets? Or, by that, do you mean that because I lived in Florida, I couldn't really be considered from the South? I've heard it said that Floridians are just "Southern Yankees's".

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"A man can no more diminish God's glory by refusing to worship Him than a lunatic can put out the sun by scribbling the word, 'darkness' on the walls of his cell." -C.S. Lewis

And, what's your evidence that this is prevalent? Your assumptions about lazy niggers? And you think a mentality that promotes flashy purchases at the expense of intelligent ones is limited soley to black urban culture? And what's your evidence that black people, in large part, are doing this? I've never even met a black person with expensive rims. You're not rich, no, but you're clearly budget conscious. And, in fact, if you knew you wanted to pop some fancy rims on that car, you might very well decide to save money on the car - Civics get great gas milage, are comfortable, and have an excellently low cost of ownership.But, apparently, when a black person makes decisions about how they want to spend their money, they're just a shiftless nigger. Of course, a white person making strategic decisions about how to spend their money is being intelligent. But those aren't the names we're talking about. "Sunbow" is a goofy name, except in hippy culture. And I'm sure William Robert does just fine in the job hunt, thank you very much.It's still not clear to me why you find "Cornelius" a "bizzare" name, when "Yoshi" and "Sergio" and "Gunter" are entirely normal names. Well, I should say that it is clear - you're racist. Incorrect. What's been shown is that giving your child a black-sounding name lessens their chance of getting called back for interviews - because racism is prevalent among employers. No. What I'm trying to do is make it so that you can't argue from racist assumptions without it being explicit how racist you're being. Those assumptions would be:1) black people are lazy and don't know how to spend money
2) black people are all rednecks
3) black people are too dumb not to give their children bizzare namesand so on. I've already linked it, so if this were true you'd already have seen it. You refused to open PDF's, remember? For someone who would "love to see" some studies, you're doing jack-all to make that possible. What do I have to fucking do, print them out and hand-deliver them to Oregon? No, because you think that Southern culture includes nobody but rednecks, you can't possibly be from the south. If you think "redneck" describes the plantation-owning upper-class whites of the antebellum south, you've never lived far enough south to know what a "redneck" is. Rednecks are poor whites from Appalachia, not rich whites from Georgia. You're as far off the mark to call them "rednecks" as I would be if I tried to tell you that Daniel Goldman, a Jewish lawyer who lives in a flat in Manhattan's Upper East Side, is a "redneck".No, of course he's not, and of course the upper-class genteel whites of the south aren't "rednecks."

Yeesh, have you ever been in a shopping mall around Christmas time? Simply living in America compels people to make bad economic choices.

In a nation running a trade deficit nearing a trillion dollars annually, boasting both a many-billion a month war debacle and 45 million uninsured citizens, living in homes increasingly financed with variable rate mortgages that are ticking debt time bombs, the question is why focus on a lousy set of chrome rims?Given the above, and given the color of most American money, I can't help but wonder what nj's analysis of Caucasian economic foibles would offer:A free pass, I imagine.

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The question for me is this: how seriously are we supposed to take the argument that black people pinp their rides because they learned it from Southern Scotsmen who lived before automobiles were even invented?And if the slave masters of Old Dixie are all Scottish, why did they say "shuga'" instead of "ach mon!"

sort of true. geogrpahically, Florida is a part of the south. But I've never, ever heard of it being part of the "Deep South" or any other "southern" culture. Especially in reference to the antebellum south. See, Florida was purchased from Spain (or Mexico--I just can't seem to remember just when the US did acquire the territory, and depending on when it did happen, Mexico was either a colony or a separate country. My bet is spain, though). What the hell did it do during the Civil War? As far as I'm concerned, the south is Virginia, Tennessee, North and South Carolina, Georgia, Alabama, Mississippi, Arkansas, Louisiana, and Texas. Texas is a bit of an oddball.The reason Florida is not part of the "south" is culture--it is hispanic/spanish, and this is what makes Texas so wierd. The Deep South, the stereotypical image, is Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia, South Carolina. Maybe a few more. The south, especially this region, is anglican as far as cultural heritage is concerned.Rednecks, hillbillies, and mountain folk are the descendants of Scot-Irish men. People who moved from Scotland to Ireland, and then settled in the Appalachians. These are the people of West Virginia (antebellum south its part of Virginia), East Tennessee, and North Carolina. The mountainous areas of these states, that is. (oh, and these descendants are the reason we have so many old english ballads left over, but that's a different topic)There is a difference between the three, too (though I'm not postive mountain folk is an appropriate term). The rednecks are your crude, oftimes NASCAR fan, person. They also display a tendency to wave the confederate flag and can be unashamedly racist. Not positive if they were around in antebellum and reconstruction era south, though. The next group was. Hillbillies are about or less crude., but worse off. Think living in the hills of Carolina. They also had a tendency to live away from mountains--your poor farmer close to the plantation. The mountain people, while still just as dirt poor, considered themselves as different from the other inhabitants--you could call them the upper class of mountain society. Calling them a redneck or hillbilly would be considered an insult, and for good reason. they weren't.I, fortunately, did not grow up in Redneck central. I grew up in the middle of them all, but they, for the most part, lived outside of Bristol. I can't stand them, honestly.You say you grew up in Miami. Sorry, but that ain't the "south". And here's a real twist for you. Born in Denver I was (army hospital), but grew up in SW VA/ E TN. I consider myself a southern, and a proud Virginian.(and I hope to god Gilmore doesn't run for president--he's the one responsible for sending Virginia into its recent fiscal mess)(one last bit--if Sowell really did say that blacks had no one else to emulate other than rednecks, he doesn't know the south--'cause as crash said, it's more than rednecks down there. decent people live there, no matter their conservative bend)(one more last bit--if you really thought that the slave masters were rednecks, man are you wrong. The majority of all slaves were owned by upperclass plantation owners--Anglicans. Very few hillbillies, rednecks, or mountain people owned slaves--they were too expensive. The slave culture is also really interesting, and did not copy elements of redneck mannerisms and culture.)(one, absolutely last bit, unless I decide to edit--I'm fairly confident on what I've written here, but my history is beginning to get a little shoddy, especially in terms of culture zones, Florida, and tiny details. So it wouldn't surprise me if there was something quite wrong in here. Not likely, but not surprising)(damn it, one last one--thanks crash, for pointing out that not everyone who actually grew up in the south, and not in Miami, is a redneck. I am definetely not one (and I still can't spell that damn word--you know the one))

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Well, I should know - I'm from a long, long, long line of rednecks. (No scots as far as I know - my distant paternal relatives are Portsmouth folk. And I've got a root in the boot on my momma (mia!)'s side.) There's a US president there, too, but that's not uncommon.

hi nem, where in florida did you live? it makes a big difference.i live in one of the more southern (geographically) regions, palm beach county. yes, we were the ones who screwed up the 2000 election with stupid old people and our ill-concieved ballots.we have something of a joke here. "you have to go north to get to the deep south." i would happily call everything north of, say, ocala "the south." but down here, we're really part of the north. it has nothing to do with when we were purchased, or spain, or any of that stuff. it has to do with who lives here.they say "new jersey is a subburb of new york city," well, so is south florida. to the south, we are absolutely infused with new yorkers and northerners in general who either live here half the year, or have moved here. most everyone else is either hispanic or haitian. there are not many "native" floridians that can trace their family back more than 2 generations here. ideas and lifestyles are very northern, with a strong laid-back streak, and a chintzy temporary building style. in northern florida and the panhandle, you get more a conservative and "standard american" atmosphere, not to mention more rednecks and people actually flying the confederate flag."the south" is really a great swath of the country, from part of texas through to east coast, not just a direction.Edited by arachnophilia, : No reason given.

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