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Author Topic:   WORDS!
ogon
Member (Idle past 6148 days)
Posts: 70
Joined: 05-13-2007


Message 1 of 6 (405402)
06-12-2007 4:24 PM


While studying Biblical literature as part of my theology degree I soon realized a lot of what I was reading was not to be taken literally. And that includes the creation of heaven and Earth in 6 days. For some reason I could never quite go along with that after reading it critically but Jesus coming back from the dead I somehow could still well believe. We presently live in a world where medical revelations are happening all the time. But then I can also see why people could so easily believe in the creation story as it is written in Genesis. I personally know many people who have a literal understanding of such stories, as once I did too. Such people are mocked generally by scientists who hold the belief that these stories have no scientific foundation. But then, I’ve been reading quite a bit of evolutionist literature lately and something dawned on me after reading about a scientists experiment with bird behaviour.
The scientist was proposing that if given a choice between 2 male birds, a group of female birds would be attracted by the stronger of the two. The bird proved his virility through courtship. Thus mating with the stronger of the 2 males the females were more likely to pass on his strong genes to their young. And in this particular case this was the result. It seemed plausible to me in the light of natural selection. But then the scientist filmed the unsuccessful male mating with other females then showed this film to the original females on T.V. The 2 males were then placed back with the group of original females again and this time the filmed male, the unsuccessful male first time around, proved to be the big attraction. By watching this male on T.V. successfully mating, the other females believed him to be the stud, and the females chose him to pass on their genes this time. I read this then proceeded to read further.
It was only the next day when I decided to revisit this page and reread it again. It struck me then that here was a scientist telling me she played a film of a rejected male mating with females on T.V. to other females, who didn’t fancy him the first time around, and they fell in love with him after seeing his image and sexual antics! On a T.V. screen!! So much so that they rejected the original male bird and chose the T.V. star! Call me nave or unscientifically minded or just plain simple but . This also made me realize that all the books about evolution that I have been reading I’ve been accepting as the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, without question, because scientists were telling me they had carried out experiments to prove their theories. This was also how I came to believe that God created the earth and all living things out of nothing. Everything I read I believed was the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.
Before biological evolution, chemical evolution took place giving rise to DNA, RNA, and proteins.
The versatility of RNA was illustrated by biologist, Gerald Joyce, who replicated the RNA molecule into 10 trillion variations.
God made every living thing on Earth, birds of the air, beasts of the land, fish in the sea, and humans. This he did in 6 days and on the 7th day took a rest.
Jesus was born of a virgin and was the son of God.
I am reading these statements realizing that at different stages in my life I believed all of them to be true. But which statements are true? I’ve never had anyone show me chemicals turning into DNA, RNA and proteins, and I’ve never seen anyone turn them into living biological creatures. I have to take Joyce’s word that he replicated the RNA molecule and had the means at his disposal to accurately count all 10 trillion variations.
I have to believe the author/s of genesis had some kind of divine inspiration and information to write such an account of the beginning of life on Earth. I also have to believe that over 2 billion Christians in the world can’t be wrong about Jesus.
I guess my question is, words in books are just words in books, taken and read literally as written evidence. But is there a person, creationist or evolutionist, who can show me undeniable evidence to prove how life began and how it developed into what we see today on Earth?
Okay, fire away.
ogon

Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by AdminPD, posted 06-12-2007 6:57 PM ogon has replied
 Message 4 by Admin, posted 06-14-2007 8:30 AM ogon has not replied

AdminPD
Inactive Administrator


Message 2 of 6 (405413)
06-12-2007 6:57 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by ogon
06-12-2007 4:24 PM


Too Broad
quote:
But is there a person, creationist or evolutionist, who can show me undeniable evidence to prove how life began and how it developed into what we see today on Earth?
That's pretty much the point of this board. I suggest you check out the science threads to see what has been discussed to date.
I'm not inclined to promote this topic as written, because the question is too broad and I don't see that you are presenting a unique position of your own.
If another Admin does not take up your cause by Friday, I will close this proposal.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by ogon, posted 06-12-2007 4:24 PM ogon has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by ogon, posted 06-13-2007 2:50 PM AdminPD has not replied

ogon
Member (Idle past 6148 days)
Posts: 70
Joined: 05-13-2007


Message 3 of 6 (405542)
06-13-2007 2:50 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by AdminPD
06-12-2007 6:57 PM


Re: Too Broad
Can't say I'm not disappointed, that took me hours to compose.
ogon

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by AdminPD, posted 06-12-2007 6:57 PM AdminPD has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 5 by Admin, posted 06-15-2007 6:51 AM ogon has replied

Admin
Director
Posts: 13014
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 4 of 6 (405665)
06-14-2007 8:30 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by ogon
06-12-2007 4:24 PM


Hi Ogon,
Not sure I can help, but let's see.
Do you have a reference for the bird TV star experiment? This is just to satisfy my own curiosity.
The topic of your proposal as given in the last paragraph is incredibly broad. You've asked for the evidence supporting naturalistic views of abiogenesis and evolution. But the title of your proposal, "WORDS!", and the flow of argument in your proposal indicates that your true interest concerns how one knows which evidence can be trusted and which cannot. If you can rewrite your proposal to focus on just that question, and give the proposal a meaningful title (you change titles by editing Message 1), then I think it would be worthy of consideration.

--Percy
EvC Forum Director

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by ogon, posted 06-12-2007 4:24 PM ogon has not replied

Admin
Director
Posts: 13014
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 5 of 6 (405835)
06-15-2007 6:51 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by ogon
06-13-2007 2:50 PM


Re: Too Broad
Ogon?

--Percy
EvC Forum Director

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by ogon, posted 06-13-2007 2:50 PM ogon has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 6 by ogon, posted 06-17-2007 2:36 AM Admin has not replied

ogon
Member (Idle past 6148 days)
Posts: 70
Joined: 05-13-2007


Message 6 of 6 (406111)
06-17-2007 2:36 AM
Reply to: Message 5 by Admin
06-15-2007 6:51 AM


Re: Too Broad
Sorry I havn't answered Percy I've been away a couple of days, I havn't spat my dummy out!
It's not worth going over the point I was trying to make again I don't mind this post getting closed.
I'll carry on reading and watching and maybe try and get involved with other threads rather than ask questions for now.
tanx guys,
ogon

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by Admin, posted 06-15-2007 6:51 AM Admin has not replied

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