Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 64 (9164 total)
4 online now:
Newest Member: ChatGPT
Post Volume: Total: 916,784 Year: 4,041/9,624 Month: 912/974 Week: 239/286 Day: 0/46 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Atheism, a dangerous idea?
ohnhai
Member (Idle past 5188 days)
Posts: 649
From: Melbourne, Australia
Joined: 11-17-2004


Message 31 of 241 (328233)
07-02-2006 9:31 AM
Reply to: Message 10 by robinrohan
07-01-2006 6:30 PM


so you believe you are a Nihilist?
Edited by Adminnemooseus, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by robinrohan, posted 07-01-2006 6:30 PM robinrohan has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 32 by Alan Fox, posted 07-02-2006 9:54 AM ohnhai has not replied

  
Alan Fox
Member (Idle past 2008 days)
Posts: 32
From: France
Joined: 06-14-2006


Message 32 of 241 (328239)
07-02-2006 9:54 AM
Reply to: Message 31 by ohnhai
07-02-2006 9:31 AM


I can't now recall the forum or thread, but someone, when asked about his beliefs by creationist acquaintances(?), now replies "I'm an irrelevantist".

This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by ohnhai, posted 07-02-2006 9:31 AM ohnhai has not replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2196 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 33 of 241 (328247)
07-02-2006 10:54 AM
Reply to: Message 26 by rgb
07-01-2006 11:37 PM


Er, while I completely agree with everything you wrote in your post, tnone of it actually addresses what I was saying.
I thought that the fundamentalist vote was a rather large proportion of the US voting public compared to the population as a whole.
You have stated that they are actually a small proportion of the voting public.
Which is it?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by rgb, posted 07-01-2006 11:37 PM rgb has not replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 442 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 34 of 241 (328385)
07-03-2006 12:46 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Alan Fox
07-01-2006 9:10 AM


I will give you a Christian point of view, not a fundamentalists one.
One thing that scares me about an Atheistic point of view, is the uncertainty of what they believe in. Even when I was agnostic, I always felt the golden rule was a good thing to follow. This came from "God".
Liberals and athiests believe in the "greater good", which is whatever they think it should be at the moment. I know that is way to general of a statement, but it represents a good portion of people.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Alan Fox, posted 07-01-2006 9:10 AM Alan Fox has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 35 by nwr, posted 07-03-2006 1:02 AM riVeRraT has replied
 Message 42 by ramoss, posted 07-03-2006 5:53 AM riVeRraT has replied
 Message 50 by nator, posted 07-03-2006 8:19 AM riVeRraT has not replied

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 6411
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 35 of 241 (328387)
07-03-2006 1:02 AM
Reply to: Message 34 by riVeRraT
07-03-2006 12:46 AM


So when you were agnostic, you believed in following the golden rule, and you thought that was good.
When atheists believe in following the golden rule, you label that "the greater good" and you apparently think that is bad.
So when did you stop following the golden rule? How can you consider yourself a Christian, when you say that following the golden rule is bad?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by riVeRraT, posted 07-03-2006 12:46 AM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 36 by riVeRraT, posted 07-03-2006 1:06 AM nwr has replied
 Message 45 by riVeRraT, posted 07-03-2006 6:50 AM nwr has replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 442 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 36 of 241 (328388)
07-03-2006 1:06 AM
Reply to: Message 35 by nwr
07-03-2006 1:02 AM


Huh?
Your response made no sense at all. Did you misunderstand me?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by nwr, posted 07-03-2006 1:02 AM nwr has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 38 by nwr, posted 07-03-2006 1:17 AM riVeRraT has not replied
 Message 39 by MUTTY6969, posted 07-03-2006 1:38 AM riVeRraT has replied
 Message 51 by nator, posted 07-03-2006 8:22 AM riVeRraT has not replied

  
MUTTY6969
Member (Idle past 6217 days)
Posts: 65
From: ARIZONA
Joined: 05-20-2006


Message 37 of 241 (328390)
07-03-2006 1:10 AM
Reply to: Message 28 by Rob
07-02-2006 1:16 AM


Oh great another behind the scene email...you did this with me a couple weeks ago and as I recall nothing came of it except long winded preaching and quote posting of other philosophical nonsense.
One can only guess what you think of the gay issue.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by Rob, posted 07-02-2006 1:16 AM Rob has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 100 by Larni, posted 07-04-2006 10:27 AM MUTTY6969 has replied
 Message 205 by rgb, posted 07-15-2006 11:21 PM MUTTY6969 has replied

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 6411
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 38 of 241 (328391)
07-03-2006 1:17 AM
Reply to: Message 36 by riVeRraT
07-03-2006 1:06 AM


Your response made no sense at all.
Then read it again, and again, and again, ...
Did you misunderstand me?
I understood you all too well. I'm wondering if you understand yourself.
It seems that you have been fed a line of horse manure by right wing fundies. And apparently have swallowed it without even attempting to check whether it is correct.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 36 by riVeRraT, posted 07-03-2006 1:06 AM riVeRraT has not replied

  
MUTTY6969
Member (Idle past 6217 days)
Posts: 65
From: ARIZONA
Joined: 05-20-2006


Message 39 of 241 (328394)
07-03-2006 1:38 AM
Reply to: Message 36 by riVeRraT
07-03-2006 1:06 AM


An atheistic view does not equal a social and moral breakdown...
quote from creationtheory.org
The world has many religions. If there is no morality without God, then should we believe that morality doesn't exist in any part of the world until it converts to Judaism or one of its offshoots? The ancient Chinese religious triumvirate of Confucianism, Taoism, and Buddhism wasn't based on Christianity. The Greeks had democracy, civilization, philosophy, and science long before Jesus was born. The Egyptians built a thriving civilization more than four thousand years ago. The Romans built an Empire without any help from Jesus or his God. Tribes and civilizations flourished throughout Africa, Australia, South America, North America, and islands all over the Pacific Ocean. All these places had different religions, different customs, different languages ... but they still shared certain moral concepts. Murder was considered immoral. Theft was considered immoral in all societies too large to function as tribal collectives. It was considered noble to help another, and contemptible to hurt others for the sake of personal gain. Honesty was praised. Deception and betrayal were vilified. Governments and gods didn't always obey these laws, but philosophers in all these places somehow found a way to come to similar conclusions. The question that fundamentalists ignore is: if morality flows from God and God alone, then how did this happen? Given the enormous differences in religious beliefs between all these cultures, how did people independently arrive at similar conclusions all over the world, with regard to murder, betrayal, theft, and altruism? Could there (gasp!) be a moral standard out there which doesn't require God?
As this alludes to I don’t think you can say-
believing in god = good morals,
being atheist = immoral.

"On the issue of evolution, the verdict is still out on how God created the Earth."
” President George W. Bush, a born-again Christian

This message is a reply to:
 Message 36 by riVeRraT, posted 07-03-2006 1:06 AM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 47 by riVeRraT, posted 07-03-2006 6:57 AM MUTTY6969 has not replied

  
ikabod
Member (Idle past 4519 days)
Posts: 365
From: UK
Joined: 03-13-2006


Message 40 of 241 (328403)
07-03-2006 3:35 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Alan Fox
07-01-2006 9:10 AM


atheism is not dangerous , what is dangerous is any group, of people who will persecute others for their beliefs , who will attack someone not for their actions but their views ......
ironic in a nation founded on freedom from religious persecution that certian church's have alined with right wing politics and become the very thing their fore father fleed from ...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Alan Fox, posted 07-01-2006 9:10 AM Alan Fox has not replied

  
Jaderis
Member (Idle past 3451 days)
Posts: 622
From: NY,NY
Joined: 06-16-2006


Message 41 of 241 (328405)
07-03-2006 3:40 AM
Reply to: Message 22 by nwr
07-01-2006 9:48 PM


Re: Asimov on atheism
Thank you for that link...I hope that everyone on this forum will read and understand where Asimov is coming from, even if they do not completely agree with him. I have lived and am living the progression of morality through experience. I was raised without direct religious indoctrination. I, of course, knew about Christianity early on (and other religions later) through books and then through friends (I was a voracious reader well before the age when my friends started talking about God) and my parents (mom raised Methodist, dad raised Catholic) told me that I could go to Sunday school with some of my friends but they told me that I could not attend any church regularly until I was 13 so that I would be able to ask critical questions while I made my spiritual journey. I was able to explore many religious doctrines and philosophies without the bias of one was right and the others wrong.
My sense of morality was based on stories told by my parents about war, their own lives, sharing with my siblings and lessons learned about pain and kindness and everything that I experienced as a child. That is the same as certain religions, I suppose, because I learned from stories passed down to me and applied them to my life. I am still developing my "morals" every day based on what I have learned and what I can apply to my basic tenet: (like the Wiccans and others) to harm none.
Christians believe they have a monopoly on morality, but I feel that as long as you believe that you can be forgiven of anything, you are capable of doing anything.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by nwr, posted 07-01-2006 9:48 PM nwr has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 43 by ramoss, posted 07-03-2006 5:56 AM Jaderis has replied

  
ramoss
Member (Idle past 638 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 42 of 241 (328432)
07-03-2006 5:53 AM
Reply to: Message 34 by riVeRraT
07-03-2006 12:46 AM


What do you mean about 'the uncertainty of what they believe in'?? I am very certain about what I believe in. It is just that 'atheism' does not have a standard reference point for every atheist. The only thing various atheists have in common is the lack of belief in god/goddesses.
Are you talking about the fact you do not know what any specific atheist will believe in? Or, are you trying to bring up the arguement that atheists don't have 'an objective morality' that many christians use?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by riVeRraT, posted 07-03-2006 12:46 AM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 46 by riVeRraT, posted 07-03-2006 6:56 AM ramoss has not replied

  
ramoss
Member (Idle past 638 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 43 of 241 (328434)
07-03-2006 5:56 AM
Reply to: Message 41 by Jaderis
07-03-2006 3:40 AM


Re: Asimov on atheism
Your parents certainly had a very interesting way of dealing with religion. Very commendable.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 41 by Jaderis, posted 07-03-2006 3:40 AM Jaderis has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 44 by Jaderis, posted 07-03-2006 6:40 AM ramoss has not replied

  
Jaderis
Member (Idle past 3451 days)
Posts: 622
From: NY,NY
Joined: 06-16-2006


Message 44 of 241 (328444)
07-03-2006 6:40 AM
Reply to: Message 43 by ramoss
07-03-2006 5:56 AM


Re: Asimov on atheism
Your parents certainly had a very interesting way of dealing with religion. Very commendable.
I think so, too. I know it had alot to do with their own experiences with (different) religion growing up and questioning the "proper" way to raise us.
I have a very vivid memory of reading Little House on the Prairie when I was about 6 and wanting to say the "Now I lay me down to sleep.." prayer that Laura Ingalls said in the book before bed and my mom obliged, but the next morning she asked me why I wanted to pray and who I was praying to and I couldn't answer the first question and then that made me think about the second and so began my journey. She never came down on me whatever I came up with no matter how far-fetched, but ever since then I always questioned my own motives for believing what I do. My father as well...but he was more of the teacher of my worldview because of his career in the military and his love for other cultures as well as American culture and history. But that is another tale.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 43 by ramoss, posted 07-03-2006 5:56 AM ramoss has not replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 442 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 45 of 241 (328447)
07-03-2006 6:50 AM
Reply to: Message 35 by nwr
07-03-2006 1:02 AM


I will address this post directly, now since your still not making any sense.
So when you were agnostic, you believed in following the golden rule, and you thought that was good.
Yes.
When atheists believe in following the golden rule, you label that "the greater good" and you apparently think that is bad.
I made no association between the golden rule, and the greater good. I said, I said, and I quote "Liberals and athiests believe in the "greater good", which is whatever they think it should be at the moment." IT is not clear what the greater good is to me. That is why I asked you if you understood my post.
So when did you stop following the golden rule?
I never stopped following the golden rule. It has been made clearer to me by God, when He showed me some of His love. I am still learning.
How can you consider yourself a Christian, when you say that following the golden rule is bad?
How you got that from what I said is beyond me, and only demonstrates the inability of people grasp concepts.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by nwr, posted 07-03-2006 1:02 AM nwr has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 48 by nwr, posted 07-03-2006 7:12 AM riVeRraT has replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024