Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total)
5 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,815 Year: 3,072/9,624 Month: 917/1,588 Week: 100/223 Day: 11/17 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Evolution or Creation
RickJB
Member (Idle past 4990 days)
Posts: 917
From: London, UK
Joined: 04-14-2006


Message 166 of 301 (396602)
04-21-2007 4:22 AM
Reply to: Message 165 by ICANT
04-21-2007 3:13 AM


Re: Same question again?
ICANT writes:
My great great, great, great, great, great, great, great grandmother and my great great, great, great, great, great, great, great grandfather had sex.
You weren't there (heh) so how do you know? (This is the same argument YECs use against science).

This message is a reply to:
 Message 165 by ICANT, posted 04-21-2007 3:13 AM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 173 by ICANT, posted 04-21-2007 7:23 PM RickJB has not replied

Archer Opteryx
Member (Idle past 3597 days)
Posts: 1811
From: East Asia
Joined: 08-16-2006


Message 167 of 301 (396625)
04-21-2007 11:16 AM
Reply to: Message 149 by ICANT
04-20-2007 11:49 AM


Re: Belief = Response to Experience
Archer: Belief is about conviction. Not deal making.
I Cant: I think I have a little conviction about what I believe.
Did you choose to think this, like you choose everything else you believe?
If so, this is likely another of your beliefs that could 'just as easily go the other way.'
If enough 'benefits' can be shown for making the switch, that is.
I would not trade what I have for all the money Bill Gates and Warren Buffet has combined.
That come out to 92.5 billion dollars.
So?
Just choose to believe you have the $92.5 as well. Then you've got it all.

Archer
All species are transitional.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 149 by ICANT, posted 04-20-2007 11:49 AM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 174 by ICANT, posted 04-21-2007 7:23 PM Archer Opteryx has not replied

nator
Member (Idle past 2169 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 168 of 301 (396689)
04-21-2007 6:42 PM
Reply to: Message 165 by ICANT
04-21-2007 3:13 AM


Re: Same question again?
quote:
My great great, great, great, great, great, great, great grandmother and my great great, great, great, great, great, great, great grandfather had sex.
Prove it. Tell me where and when they had sex, and why.
Edited by nator, : No reason given.
Edited by nator, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 165 by ICANT, posted 04-21-2007 3:13 AM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 175 by ICANT, posted 04-21-2007 7:23 PM nator has replied

ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 169 of 301 (396696)
04-21-2007 7:00 PM
Reply to: Message 164 by nator
04-20-2007 9:44 PM


Re: Biologist
I guess that means that you do, in fact, think that Biologists are stupid, incompetent scientists.
There you go reading my mind again and putting words in my mouth. It would be nice if you would refrain from this practice, as it is getting to be a habit.
I believe there are many great biologist, scientist of all fields that are doing a marvelous work under great pressure. I also believe there are scientist that have an agenda and will twist anything to say what they want. Just as I believe there are so called Christians that do the same thing. All having their minds seared with a hot iron just like you. That they are blinded and cannot and will not see the truth.
Is this not what you say of me.

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 164 by nator, posted 04-20-2007 9:44 PM nator has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 171 by Quetzal, posted 04-21-2007 7:08 PM ICANT has replied
 Message 177 by nator, posted 04-21-2007 7:38 PM ICANT has replied

ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 170 of 301 (396697)
04-21-2007 7:00 PM
Reply to: Message 163 by nator
04-20-2007 9:37 PM


Re: How is it possible
How is it possible that "day" and "night" were created on one day, but the Sun was created at a later time?
quote:
Therefore I believe and propose that somewhere back in time as we know it(billions of years ago) that God created the heavens and the earth. I believe at that moment it was perfect in every way.
  —msg=1
If the heavens were perfect in every way that would mean the stars, sun, moon, galaxies, literally everything you can see today was there.
The same day this happened God formed man from the dust of the ground. Planted a garden, formed all the animals, and fowls out of the earth. God made woman out of a rib taken from man. etc.
The events you are referencing took place billions of years later.
Genesis 1:14 and Genesis 1:16 Does not say God created these lights.
Genesis 1:17 does say he put them where He wanted them.

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 163 by nator, posted 04-20-2007 9:37 PM nator has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 178 by nator, posted 04-21-2007 7:42 PM ICANT has replied

Quetzal
Member (Idle past 5872 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 01-09-2002


Message 171 of 301 (396698)
04-21-2007 7:08 PM
Reply to: Message 169 by ICANT
04-21-2007 7:00 PM


Re: Biologist
I also believe there are scientist that have an agenda and will twist anything to say what they want.
It isn't my intent to jump on the dog pile. However, the above perked my interest. Do you believe that a biologist could twist data or develop an agenda-driven theory and not get caught? Are you aware of both how competitive and how intensively scrutinized anything written for publication in scientific journals actually is? Or worse, presented at a scientific conference?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 169 by ICANT, posted 04-21-2007 7:00 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 176 by ICANT, posted 04-21-2007 7:29 PM Quetzal has replied

ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 172 of 301 (396700)
04-21-2007 7:22 PM
Reply to: Message 161 by LinearAq
04-20-2007 4:39 PM


Re: No conflict?
Obviously, you don't believe Genesis as it was written so you must not believe the rest of the Bible as written.
But I do believe it.
So we have a teleporting man existing before the earth was void?
I have to believe God made the man perfect. Since that is the mode of travel used by the angels why would he not have that mode of transportation. He was a man that God could walk and talk to just as I can have a conservation with my wife.
How do you know that man hasn't added the entire creation story?
That is a possibility and is just as plausible as the entire big bang evolution thing is a made up story. You see I have never seen one shred of evidence that the big bang happened. Not that I have not read a lot about it. I have never seen one shred of evidence that life just appeared either. I have not seen one shred of evidence that man evolved from a lower life form. I have seen a lot that was written about it.
But these stories are to me just that. Same as "The Three Little Pigs", Little Red Riding Hood" etc.
The stories of the big bang as science portrays it and the evolution of man, and everything on earth literally from nothing, are just as much of a fairy tale to me as:
In the beginning God created the Heavens an earth are to an Atheist and most evolutionist.
No conflict, except for that little water-existing-before-stars thing...oh, and that minor night-and-day-separation-before-the-sun-was-created thing. Yep...looks like the description of the creation of the universe that we see in Genesis closely matches the current theories from modern cosmology. {end sarcasm}
Be as sarcastic as you want to be, it doesn't change anything.
Give me a break!
OK Christ died for your sins, trust Him for salvation before you end up in the lake of fire.
The Genesis account isn't any closer to "Science" before the first single cell than it is after. Even your reordering of the events does not make the two mesh any better.
My Account In the Beginning
Science There was a beginning
My Account God created the Heavens and the earth
Science The Big Bang
My Account Nano second later Universe
Science Billions of years Universe
My Account Nano second later man, plants, animals, etc.
Science Billions years later life
No conflict, except for that little water-existing-before-stars thing...oh, and that minor night-and-day-separation-before-the-sun-was-created thing.
See Message 170

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 161 by LinearAq, posted 04-20-2007 4:39 PM LinearAq has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 184 by Coragyps, posted 04-21-2007 8:23 PM ICANT has replied

ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 173 of 301 (396701)
04-21-2007 7:23 PM
Reply to: Message 166 by RickJB
04-21-2007 4:22 AM


Re: how do you know
Hi Rick,
You weren't there (heh) so how do you know?
Rick you are so right. Just like no one was there when the single cell life form appeared.
Just like no one was there when the so called big (soft) (tinkle) bang happened.
Come to think of it there was no one there when man evolved.
But that does not keep a lot of people from saying we know it happened. We are here therefore we know it took place.
But God was there, In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth, and He formed the first living creature from the dust of the ground and called it man.

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 166 by RickJB, posted 04-21-2007 4:22 AM RickJB has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 181 by nator, posted 04-21-2007 7:56 PM ICANT has not replied

ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 174 of 301 (396702)
04-21-2007 7:23 PM
Reply to: Message 167 by Archer Opteryx
04-21-2007 11:16 AM


Re: Wishful Thinking
Archer
Did you choose to think this, like you choose everything else you believe?
No this I know from the way I live my life.
Just choose to believe you have the $92.5 as well.
That would be wishful thinking.

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 167 by Archer Opteryx, posted 04-21-2007 11:16 AM Archer Opteryx has not replied

ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 175 of 301 (396703)
04-21-2007 7:23 PM
Reply to: Message 168 by nator
04-21-2007 6:42 PM


Re: ICANT does not Exist
If you can't, I refuse to believe that you exist.
Please believe that I do not exist.
That I do not post.
That way you do not have to answer anything I post.
It would be great if you did, then I would not have to apologize to AdminPD for going off topic so much.

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 168 by nator, posted 04-21-2007 6:42 PM nator has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 180 by nator, posted 04-21-2007 7:54 PM ICANT has replied

ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 176 of 301 (396705)
04-21-2007 7:29 PM
Reply to: Message 171 by Quetzal
04-21-2007 7:08 PM


Re: Biologist
Hi Quetzal,
Junp on everybody else has.
Do you believe that a biologist could twist data
I am saying there have been many frauds that have been caught.
How many are there that have not been caught.
In science and so called christianity.

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 171 by Quetzal, posted 04-21-2007 7:08 PM Quetzal has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 179 by nator, posted 04-21-2007 7:51 PM ICANT has not replied
 Message 183 by Quetzal, posted 04-21-2007 8:22 PM ICANT has not replied
 Message 188 by Doddy, posted 04-21-2007 9:04 PM ICANT has replied

nator
Member (Idle past 2169 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 177 of 301 (396706)
04-21-2007 7:38 PM
Reply to: Message 169 by ICANT
04-21-2007 7:00 PM


Re: Biologist
quote:
I believe there are many great biologist, scientist of all fields that are doing a marvelous work under great pressure.
But you asked, ICANT, "How can anyone believe in the Theory of Evolution?".
That includes Biologists, doesn't it?
The vast majority of professional Biologists accept the ToE as the great, overarching theory that underpins their entire field. This is because for the last 100 years or so, it has proven to have enormous predictive power, has not been falsified, and has spawned many other fruitful lines of research. The emergence of the field of Genetics, and the remarkable congruence between it and the predictions of the ToE was incredibly important to it's wide acceptance by the entire scientific community.
Let me repeat:
Scientific theories live or die on their usefulness. Do they make accurate predictions? Can we build upon past findings of the theory to ask more and better questions?
The answer is a resounding YES for the Theory of Evolution.
quote:
I also believe there are scientist that have an agenda and will twist anything to say what they want.
Like who?
I see now that you hold to the conspiracy theory of why Biologists accept the ToE.
ICANT, science is a painfully open, honest profession. Scientists who "twist anything to say what they want" will have an extremely hard time getting published in any legitimate peer-reviewed professional journal. This is because science is progressive; it builds upon the work of others. Fraud in science is extremely rare because the penalty for doing so is very harsh. (and they are nearly always eventually caught because when other scientists try to replicate their work, they won't get the same results, and also because graduate students and collaborators are very willing to be whistleblowers, since nobody wants their own work to be tainted by association) Scientists who cheat can't get work in their field ever again.
So, I ask again; exactly which Biologists are willing to "twist anything"? Which scientists, exactly, distort or fabricate their findings in favor of their "agenda"? Which legitimate scientific journals have their papers been published in?
How could it be that, in such an open, self-critical system as scientific peer-review is, certain Biologists could manage to lie and not get caught?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 169 by ICANT, posted 04-21-2007 7:00 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 182 by ICANT, posted 04-21-2007 8:22 PM nator has replied

nator
Member (Idle past 2169 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 178 of 301 (396707)
04-21-2007 7:42 PM
Reply to: Message 170 by ICANT
04-21-2007 7:00 PM


Re: How is it possible
Er, I guess...
Except where in the Bible does it say "billions of years?"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 170 by ICANT, posted 04-21-2007 7:00 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 190 by ICANT, posted 04-21-2007 10:51 PM nator has replied

nator
Member (Idle past 2169 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 179 of 301 (396709)
04-21-2007 7:51 PM
Reply to: Message 176 by ICANT
04-21-2007 7:29 PM


Re: Biologist
quote:
I am saying there have been many frauds that have been caught.
Like who?
And who uncovered the frauds?
quote:
How many are there that have not been caught.
You have no way of knowing that, so I suggest you retract it.
I just love how people who don't know anything about how science is done casually throw around what are considered by scientists extremely serious and insulting accusations of fraud.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 176 by ICANT, posted 04-21-2007 7:29 PM ICANT has not replied

nator
Member (Idle past 2169 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 180 of 301 (396711)
04-21-2007 7:54 PM
Reply to: Message 175 by ICANT
04-21-2007 7:23 PM


Re: ICANT does not Exist
It seems you are not willing or able to get my point.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 175 by ICANT, posted 04-21-2007 7:23 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 185 by ICANT, posted 04-21-2007 8:26 PM nator has not replied

Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024