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Author Topic:   The Evolution of evcforum.net
Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 16 of 154 (254391)
10-24-2005 7:36 AM
Reply to: Message 12 by Dr Jack
10-24-2005 7:06 AM


An example.
As I write this (check the time of posting) there is an example before our very eyes. A PNT that is, in my non-Admin opinion, clear and well-written against abiogenesis, but not being promoted.
This message has been edited by Chiroptera, 24-Oct-2005 11:36 AM

"Intellectually, scientifically, even artistically, fundamentalism -- biblical literalism -- is a road to nowhere, because it insists on fidelity to revealed truths that are not true." -- Katha Pollitt

This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by Dr Jack, posted 10-24-2005 7:06 AM Dr Jack has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 19 by Brian, posted 10-24-2005 7:39 AM Chiroptera has not replied

  
Brian
Member (Idle past 4959 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 17 of 154 (254392)
10-24-2005 7:36 AM
Reply to: Message 14 by Parasomnium
10-24-2005 7:29 AM


Re: Excellent point!
Hi,
I'd say that's a bonus.
Why?
Brian.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by Parasomnium, posted 10-24-2005 7:29 AM Parasomnium has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 18 by Parasomnium, posted 10-24-2005 7:38 AM Brian has replied

  
Parasomnium
Member
Posts: 2224
Joined: 07-15-2003


Message 18 of 154 (254394)
10-24-2005 7:38 AM
Reply to: Message 17 by Brian
10-24-2005 7:36 AM


Re: Excellent point!
Because the best arguments are not made in the heat of a battle.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by Brian, posted 10-24-2005 7:36 AM Brian has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 20 by Brian, posted 10-24-2005 7:45 AM Parasomnium has not replied

  
Brian
Member (Idle past 4959 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 19 of 154 (254395)
10-24-2005 7:39 AM
Reply to: Message 16 by Chiroptera
10-24-2005 7:36 AM


Re: An example.
Hi,
At the same time I have seen topics promoted that (IMO) needed a hell of a lot of work before I would have promoted them!
Brian.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by Chiroptera, posted 10-24-2005 7:36 AM Chiroptera has not replied

  
Brian
Member (Idle past 4959 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 20 of 154 (254396)
10-24-2005 7:45 AM
Reply to: Message 18 by Parasomnium
10-24-2005 7:38 AM


Re: Excellent point!
But it doesn't need to be the heat of a battle. It can be the 'heat' of enthusiasm over a topic, it could be that you would really like to discuss a particular sub topic there and then and it doesn't have to be as opponents!
Imagine a Thursday night, you have made a few posts and you know that a member you have been replying to is online. Now, that member mentions something that immediately captures both your imaginations, you are both eager to discuss it, not argue, but discuss. Then you need to wait days to do it, it spoils the entire moment.
I also like spontaneous discussion, it shows how well you know a topic rather than having days to read up on it.
Brian.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by Parasomnium, posted 10-24-2005 7:38 AM Parasomnium has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 21 by Wounded King, posted 10-24-2005 7:48 AM Brian has replied

  
Wounded King
Member
Posts: 4149
From: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Joined: 04-09-2003


Message 21 of 154 (254397)
10-24-2005 7:48 AM
Reply to: Message 20 by Brian
10-24-2005 7:45 AM


Re: Excellent point!
I'd suggest that in that situation the Chat room might be an even better solution.
TTFN,
WK

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by Brian, posted 10-24-2005 7:45 AM Brian has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 22 by Parasomnium, posted 10-24-2005 7:50 AM Wounded King has not replied
 Message 25 by Brian, posted 10-24-2005 9:20 AM Wounded King has replied

  
Parasomnium
Member
Posts: 2224
Joined: 07-15-2003


Message 22 of 154 (254399)
10-24-2005 7:50 AM
Reply to: Message 21 by Wounded King
10-24-2005 7:48 AM


Re: Excellent point!
Or you can open a Coffee House topic. Or simply ignore forum rules regarding staying on topic (for a short while).

This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by Wounded King, posted 10-24-2005 7:48 AM Wounded King has not replied

  
Mammuthus
Member (Idle past 6475 days)
Posts: 3085
From: Munich, Germany
Joined: 08-09-2002


Message 23 of 154 (254410)
10-24-2005 8:55 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by Brian
10-23-2005 5:36 AM


Re: What is up with EvC and what do we do?
quote:
Mammathus, a superb and very knowledgeable poster whose demolition of old senile Davison was amazing, very informative, where has Mamm gone?
I can answer that
My absence has nothing to do with changes at EvC and everything to do with changes in my life/career. Guys like mick, Wounded King, and myself who are postdocs at some point have to find more stable jobs. I notice that WK has not posted as regularly either. I went on a publishing binge (that I am still in the middle of) and managed to land an assistant professorship and will be leaving Europe..so I have to start my lab...and go beg for money for my lab . This has meant I have had squat time for posting or even keeping up with the forums. That and I had to travel a lot because of job interviews etc. I do lurk when I can. But since I prefer to post in ongoing threads where I can present papers and debate their content, I just don't have the time for it. I simply have not been able to find a time where I could engage someone and stay engaged like the good old days of Peter Borger or the hilarious days of Salty. I know that SLPx and Joe Meert are under similar time constraints.
It is a pity that the creationists don't even realize how much time the busy academics here have taken to respond to their questions or posts.
If I ever get to a less hectic schedule, I will return to posting again...but who knows when that will be

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by Brian, posted 10-23-2005 5:36 AM Brian has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 24 by Brian, posted 10-24-2005 9:14 AM Mammuthus has replied
 Message 27 by Wounded King, posted 10-24-2005 9:33 AM Mammuthus has replied

  
Brian
Member (Idle past 4959 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 24 of 154 (254416)
10-24-2005 9:14 AM
Reply to: Message 23 by Mammuthus
10-24-2005 8:55 AM


Re: What is up with EvC and what do we do?
Hi M,
Great to hear from you again.
I do realise that some posters do have changes in their life/career, and I appreciate that EvC is way down the list of many people's priorities, it is even way down my list of priorities.
But this sums up part of what I am moaning about:
the good old days of Peter Borger or the hilarious days of Salty
These were good old days. These threads were where scientific ignoramuses such as myself could learn something from people like you and Joe. I knew there was a lot wrong with what these creationists were claiming but you guys actually highlighted it perfectly and in language that I could understand. We hardly ever get discussions like that now, or maybe we do and it is I who have changed and maybe it is time I moved on.
Cheers for now.
Brian.
AbE Do you think you would find time to post if old Salty started posting here again?
This message has been edited by Brian, 10-24-2005 09:25 AM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by Mammuthus, posted 10-24-2005 8:55 AM Mammuthus has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 28 by Mammuthus, posted 10-24-2005 10:09 AM Brian has not replied

  
Brian
Member (Idle past 4959 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 25 of 154 (254417)
10-24-2005 9:20 AM
Reply to: Message 21 by Wounded King
10-24-2005 7:48 AM


Re: Excellent point!
Hi,
Not much good for the lurkers though, plus there's no record of the discussion if you wish to resume it again, or check over which particular points have already been made.
What's your opinion of the PNT, and EvC in general, are you enjoying it as much as you did a year ago?
Brian.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by Wounded King, posted 10-24-2005 7:48 AM Wounded King has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 30 by Wounded King, posted 10-24-2005 11:13 AM Brian has not replied

  
Brian
Member (Idle past 4959 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 26 of 154 (254418)
10-24-2005 9:24 AM
Reply to: Message 7 by mike the wiz
10-23-2005 8:51 AM


Re: Retire PNT it is pointless
How much admin work have you done here Mike?
Also, it looks as if you disappeared pretty soon after becoming an admin, any connection, if not why did you leave?
Brian.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by mike the wiz, posted 10-23-2005 8:51 AM mike the wiz has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 31 by Adminnemooseus, posted 10-24-2005 11:15 AM Brian has not replied

  
Wounded King
Member
Posts: 4149
From: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Joined: 04-09-2003


Message 27 of 154 (254420)
10-24-2005 9:33 AM
Reply to: Message 23 by Mammuthus
10-24-2005 8:55 AM


Re: What is up with EvC and what do we do?
I notice that WK has not posted as regularly either.
This is less to do with my work taking up more of my time, I can still prevaricate with the best of them, than it is to do with a current dearth of biological topics that take my interest. The biblical and political forums still seem pretty busy.
Those that do engage my interest often don't seem to last very long.
I agree that things have certainly become duller in the absence of the likes of Salty, or even Syamsu.
TTFN,
WK
This message has been edited by Wounded King, 10-24-2005 09:34 AM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by Mammuthus, posted 10-24-2005 8:55 AM Mammuthus has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 29 by Mammuthus, posted 10-24-2005 10:12 AM Wounded King has not replied

  
Mammuthus
Member (Idle past 6475 days)
Posts: 3085
From: Munich, Germany
Joined: 08-09-2002


Message 28 of 154 (254423)
10-24-2005 10:09 AM
Reply to: Message 24 by Brian
10-24-2005 9:14 AM


Re: What is up with EvC and what do we do?
Hi Brian,
Having only lurked recently I cannot say what the state of EvC is like currently. I did notice that people (creationists for the most part) were getting banned at a fairly rapid pace i.e buzzsaw, Faith banned then reinstated, mike the wiz etc. But the dearth of the Borger and Salty type of threads has to do more with the really tiny number of somewhat scientifically literate people who support creationism. Even when Borger and Salty were around, they were still vastly outnumbered by completely science ignorant creationists. It was just that their threads were very active and fun because they had those qualities and the complete nuts were easier to ignore. Stephen ben Yeshua was another case and randman was as well. With the exception of Stephen, all the others were ejected from EvC. So at some level, the problem is how things were being administered. Kooky threads are shut down way to quickly in my opinion. Also, banning should be used more sparingly. I don't particularly want a return of Salty mainly because he was way too repetitive for me. After 20 times smashing his arguements with different data sets just to have him start over from scratch each time lost its entertainment value. Borger kept the debate lively. So did Tranquility Base come to think of it (he as also banned). but of all of people I have mentioned, I only think Salty deserved to be banned.
I think what has to be realized is that 99% of what creationists say when they come here will be based on ignorance and unsupportable. 1% will be somehow scientifically interesting. If for the sake of managing the board, you squeeze the nonesense out, you also lower the chances that a good old fashioned debate will occur. Though occasionally uncivil, the debates with Borger lasted months without the need of admin interference...now creationists have to run a gauntlet to get their topics approved. I don't think Behe would survive the low nonesense tolerance level at this point. And this is a problem. It lets the person vent the nonsense elswhere (like in Southern state school board meetings) and deprives us of the starting points for addressing the misconceptions/lies/and questions that come up when people are free to post. It might mean you get more trolls showing up to..but at least you get something for it the trouble. but I could be completely off and it couls all just be me. Percy started the Columnist's Corner and I wrote up two articles that were completely ignored. Before I went to lurk mode, most of the biological science forum thread died out too quickly..or responses were so sporadic that I lost track of the discussions. Unlike before, I don't seem to be a lightening rod for controversy among the creo's...must be getting old
cheers,
M

This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by Brian, posted 10-24-2005 9:14 AM Brian has not replied

  
Mammuthus
Member (Idle past 6475 days)
Posts: 3085
From: Munich, Germany
Joined: 08-09-2002


Message 29 of 154 (254426)
10-24-2005 10:12 AM
Reply to: Message 27 by Wounded King
10-24-2005 9:33 AM


Re: What is up with EvC and what do we do?
Hi WK,
but that is just it..I originally came here for the bio forum and the coffee house and the biblical forums don't hold my attention. This at least was my impression before I got avalanched by my work life. The bio forum used to be one of the most active..now it is almost a side note.
cheers
M

This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by Wounded King, posted 10-24-2005 9:33 AM Wounded King has not replied

  
Wounded King
Member
Posts: 4149
From: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Joined: 04-09-2003


Message 30 of 154 (254439)
10-24-2005 11:13 AM
Reply to: Message 25 by Brian
10-24-2005 9:20 AM


Re: Excellent point!
Not much good for the lurkers though, plus there's no record of the discussion if you wish to resume it again, or check over which particular points have already been made.
Good points.
What's your opinion of the PNT, and EvC in general, are you enjoying it as much as you did a year ago?
I dont' have much problem with the PNT system, I view it as a neccessary evil. My only bugbear is that it I sometimes have to prod people to get my proposed topics passed through.
As I said to mammuthus, I am not posting as much, which probably correlates to my level of enjoyment, because I am not seeing many topics which are in my own areas of interest. This doesn't neccessary reflect a general decline in the whole sitr, although I am biased towards thinking that the Biological evolution forum should be the most important one in a sie designed to dicuss evolution and creation.
TTFN,
WK

This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by Brian, posted 10-24-2005 9:20 AM Brian has not replied

  
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