Message 1 of 60 (207402) 10-09-2006 12:56 AM

It's a bit lengthy, but you need to see the whole thing.
Gem stones

Message 3 of 60 (207404) 10-09-2006 4:34 AM

Reply to: Message 1 by riVeRraT 10-09-2006 12:56 AM

1) Whoever the female Pastor is at the first, she represents a similar vein of the Charismatic movement that I grew up with---I am familiar with the type of church she represents. I see no reason to distrust her nor to send her any money. She is quite simply using the gemstone films---whether for glory of God or for attention to her $20,000 website.

2) The folks who were in the video seemed to have experienced a sincerely genuine event. Whether or not they were being used or not is not to be concluded. As a Faith/Belief person myself, I see no problem with the gems being genuine, but I wonder why God would choose such a method.

The skeptic in me sees a possibility that there is deception.

The Believer in me wants the situation to be real, if only to glorify God.

I think they oughta break one of em and analyse it, but maybe God wouldnt like that just as He didnt like King David counting the number of Israelites that he had at his disposal that time in the O.T.

Conclusion: I have no opinion one way or the other--just like you, Rat. A wicked and adulterous generation seeks after a sign...and I'm thinking that many people connected with this situation will miss the overall message (Glorify God) and concentrate on the gems themselves.

I will say, however, that for all the empirical skeptics out there, I believe that it could happen, though it is more certainly unlikely.

Message 4 of 60 (207405) 10-09-2006 6:42 AM

Reply to: Message 3 by Phat 10-09-2006 4:34 AM

1) A tall tale

2) followed by an "expert" who leaps straight to the conclusion - yep those came from god BEFORE he even talks about the stones.

There is nothing here to work with.

Message 5 of 60 (207406) 10-09-2006 7:25 AM

Reply to: Message 1 by riVeRraT 10-09-2006 12:56 AM

Much of the movie is spent in giving you alll kinds of theological argumentss to persuade you to suspend your normal skepticism, and accept the tale without questioning it. I guess that works for some folk, but it makes me highly suspicious.

Message 6 of 60 (207407) 10-09-2006 7:41 AM

Reply to: Message 5 by nwr 10-09-2006 7:25 AM

Politicians use the same trick, you start with statements that everyone in your audience will agree with ("we all agree that schools should be one of our top priority") and you repeat for a very statements ("We all want to see the best for nation's Hospitals) and then it gets everyone in the right mental place when you want to introduce ideas that people might resist.

Message 7 of 60 (207408) 10-09-2006 11:30 AM

Reply to: Message 3 by Phat 10-09-2006 4:34 AM

Do you have the same reaction to the virgin Mary's face on a tortilla?

Message 9 of 60 (207410) 10-09-2006 12:20 PM

Reply to: Message 7 by ringo 10-09-2006 11:30 AM

The only reason that I believe that there is any chance that the gemstones could be authentic is because I don't sense a deliberate con job. Perhaps there are cons (manning the cameras, paying for the video,etc) who are unseen behind the scenes, however.

Message 10 of 60 (207411) 10-09-2006 12:20 PM

Reply to: Message 3 by Phat 10-09-2006 4:34 AM

At that price, we can assume a somewhat elaborate web site. Now why would God happen to pick such an elaborate web site to reveal his miracles? That's another reason for my suspicions and skepticism.

Message 12 of 60 (207413) 10-09-2006 1:02 PM

Reply to: Message 1 by riVeRraT 10-09-2006 12:56 AM

On the other hand, it's easy to understand why a con man would.

Message 13 of 60 (207414) 10-09-2006 1:09 PM

Reply to: Message 1 by riVeRraT 10-09-2006 12:56 AM

Although, I do recognize the name of the webmaster of the church's website. He once worked for me as a summer intern. So I may be able to get some inside information.

This EvC Detective is on the case. Stay tuned for an update.

Edited by troxelso, : No reason given.

Message 14 of 60 (207415) 10-09-2006 2:48 PM

Reply to: Message 9 by Phat 10-09-2006 12:20 PM

How is that different from people who want so badly to believe in miracles that they'll buy any kind of snake-oil?

(By the way, I notice that you capitalized the Holy Tortilla. Interesting. :) )

So a "deliberate con job" presenter would be wearing a plaid suit and saying, "Come on down and getcher gen-you-wine miracle gemstones. Get 'em while they last. Only one thin dime, the tenth part of a dollar. Don't pay until 2008...."

The word "con" comes from "confidence", you know.