Message 1 of 71 (389363) 12-08-2005 9:54 AM

The trailer at Yahoo.

An interview with Ang Lee and Jake Gyllenhaal from ABC's At The Movies. The video features a couple scenes not shown in the trailer.

The original short story Brokeback Mountain by Annie Proulx, courtesy of The New Yorker.

Message 8 of 71 (389370) 12-09-2005 9:02 AM

Reply to: Message 7 by nator 12-09-2005 7:29 AM

Brokeback Mountain is more ironic - or paradoxical - in that one would hardly expect a big-budget western to feature gay male leading characters, even though on reflection one might realize that it isn't so far-fetched given the fact that cowboys do spend lots of time alone with other cowboys out on the range.

So yeah, my statement was inaccurate, but I think it's still true that nothing even close to this has been done before.

Message 21 of 71 (389383) 12-10-2005 10:45 AM

Reply to: Message 20 by Rrhain 12-10-2005 7:20 AM

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The Celluloid Closet

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Absolutely, I've read and seen it - albeit some years ago.

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Cat on a Hot Tin Roof: Brick is gay.

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Yes, but most people don't get that from the movie because of the script changes (speaking of the Paul Newman; in spite of the changes that version is still superior to the Tommy Lee Jones in my opinion). I have yet to see this on the stage.

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The Children's Hour

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Never saw the film, but I did see the play about 15 years ago. I should take your advice and check this one out; I'm curious to see if they hide the lesbianism in it. I don't see how the picture could make sense without it. Wasn't there an early talkie version of it too?

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Making Love

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Ewww, I hate that one. It's been too long since I've seen it for me to cite all the faults, but I remember that the only thing I really liked about it was the Roberta Flack song.

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Cruising

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Vaguely remember it; is this the one that had John Hurt? No, no, that one had Ryan O'Neal too, but it was somehow related to this. I've forgotten.

Speaking of Al Pacino, you forgot about Dog Day Afternoon.

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La Cage Aux Folles / Birdcage

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Wonderful comedies both but I give a slight edge to the original. Speaking of which, LCAF is one of the rare cases of a foreign film where I prefer the dubbed version to the subtitled. The French have such a gift for visual humor, and in watching this you'll miss a lot of the best jokes if you're reading subtitles.

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The Boys in the Band

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Love it! Absolutely love it!

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The Rocky Horror Picture Show: OK...Frankie is pan-sexual, but it actually has a shot of Tim Curry going down on Barry Bostwick.

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Oh yeah, I remember. That film led to one of the best nights of sex I ever had during high school.

I haven't seen Jeffrey and had in fact forgotten about it until you mentioned it. It's another I need to see.

But I stand by my statement that none of these are in any way like Brokeback Mountain. I can't remember a drama where the audience's sympathy is thrown to two young gay male leads. Making Love may have come close, but I just didn't like it.

Another picture that hasn't been mentioned is A Different Story, but I didn't much like it either because the main characters go straight at the end, which is totally unrealistic.

AbE: There's another we both forgot but which definitely should be mentioned - Alfred Hitchcock's Rope. It's not without faults, and one can imagine that in 1948 most people didn't have a clue that the lead characters were gay (unless of course they knew that the story was based on the Leopold-Loeb murder case), but watching it today there can be no question about it.

YAE (yet another edit): On further reflection, a few more films come to mind, including one which is perhaps a bit closer to the theme of Brokeback. First, there are two more cinematic versions of the Leopold-Loeb case: Compulsion, which is mostly a courtroom drama, and Swoon, which is really a lot of fun to watch. Of the three I think I prefer the Hitchcock, which is odd in a way since I love black-and-white and this is very much a black-and-white kind of story. But Rope was Hitch's first Technicolor feature and is interesting in that respect as well as in the performance of the two leads, Farley Granger and John Dall who, aware that the script didn't make the sexuality explicit, seem to do what they can to convey it through gestures.

Coming closer than anything else I can remember to being a good gay love story is the Merchant-Ivory Maurice, featuring a young Hugh Grant in a sexually ambiguous role. In this picture, Hugh Grant and James Wilby carry off the first passionate male-to-male kiss I can remember seeing in a movie.

This message has been edited by berberry, 12-10-2005 02:11 PM

Message 26 of 71 (389388) 12-13-2005 2:30 AM

Reply to: Message 24 by Rrhain 12-10-2005 6:04 PM

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You keep changing your criteria! First you said, "big budget movie made on a gay theme." Now it's a drama.

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Well, yeah, I know. I changed it more than once, and quite openly. The point wasn't so much to defend any particular statement as it was to figure out just what statement would be true. Based on my reading of the short story and what I've heard about this picture, there's definitely something new about it and I'm trying to figure out just what it is.

Making Love seems to be fresher in your memory than it is in mine, so I'd like to ask you a question about it (I may have it confused with something else): isn't the film very sympathetic to the wife (wasn't it Kate Jackson?)? I seem to recall that it placed considerable blame for her situation on the Ontkean (sp?) character, rather than on society at large. Am I correct in remembering it this way?

Message 28 of 71 (389390) 12-13-2005 9:58 AM

Reply to: Message 27 by Rrhain 12-13-2005 6:04 AM

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I haven't seen the movie in years, so I am not sure, however I don't recall there being "blame" on the husband.

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I remember coming away from Making Love disappointed in the way it portrayed the Ontkean character. As I recall the film didn't do much to make the point that Ontkean should never have been forced into a situation where he needed a wife in order to hide his sexuality; that in a better world he would never have married Jackson to begin with. It seems to me that Ontkean was shown as indifferent toward his wife's suffering.

Again, it's been years so I could well be wrong (not to mention that my attitudes were a bit different all those years ago), so I will concede that I might have a very different reaction if I were to see the movie again. Perhaps the LOGO channel will run it one day soon; I don't think my local video store has it.

Message 30 of 71 (389392) 12-16-2005 1:22 PM

We've still got a long way to go with these people, but I'm surprised to see that some of them aren't too bigoted to ever reform. I just wish more Christians of this type would speak up when their brethren are demonizing us.

Message 32 of 71 (389394) 12-24-2005 7:18 AM

Reply to: Message 31 by Rrhain 12-23-2005 11:29 PM

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...why is he advocating for people to enter into loveless marraiges?

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Cuz he's just another fundie. This is not a guy of any intellectual depth. He likes the Left Behind crap, for crying out loud.

The problem for Medved is that he, like other fundies, has worked himself into an intellectual box over homosexuality. I don't think he can get out of it, so all he can do is preach to other fundies. Anyone who sees the film without the preconception that gay = evil would have to see that the only reason the two men had loveless marriages was because of the attitudes of the society they lived in. It's too obvious (I say that based on my reading of the short story). But Medved and his American Taliban have built an empire on demonizing gays (among others), so the only thing they can do is comdemn the picture and hope (pray?) that their followers don't see it.

Incidentally, the Catholic review has undergone a couple accretions and deletions since I posted that link. At the time, the Catholic rating was adults-only. The day after my post, a disclaimer was added at the beginning saying that the rating had been changed to morally offensive. The disclaimer has since been dropped. The morally offensive rating remains, but it isn't mentioned until the final paragraph. No changes have been made to the review itself.

Message 33 of 71 (389395) 12-30-2005 6:55 AM

Reply to: Message 31 by Rrhain 12-23-2005 11:29 PM

I emailed Jackson's Cinemark theater about Brokeback Mountain and they responded that it should be on at least one screen somewhere locally by late January or early February. One damned screen in a city of over 500k people (600k post-Katrina) for a major picture in wide release seems pretty pathetic, but then this "city" is really just an over-grown small southern baptist town. In any case, I suppose I'll sit tight for now and see if I'll be spared the need for a mid-winter road trip to go see it.

Rrhain wrote me:

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And just think! If society had never had this hangup with gay people, Brokeback Mountain would never have been made, there wouldn't have been a supposed attack on John Wayne, and there wouldn't be a story about adultery. He is actually causing the climate people are rebelling against and is the source of his own agony.

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I wanted to respond to this again to add a coda to your point: I think it was Andrew Sullivan who first got me to thinking seriously about gay marriage. Back during the Clinton-era debate over gays in the military, Sullivan was arguing that although equality for gays in the military was a laudible goal, the gay marriage issue should come first because from that all other forms of fair treatment would inevitably follow. In hindsight I think he might have been right, especially when you consider that both the national mood and the courts were more liberal at the time.

Message 42 of 71 (389404) 01-13-2006 7:06 PM

Reply to: Message 40 by mark24 01-13-2006 6:38 PM

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Just seen it, 10 out of 10. The lump in my throat actually caused me pain.

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It just opened in Jackson today so I'm planning to see it this weekend, probably tomorrow night. Can't wait.

Message 50 of 71 (389412) 01-15-2006 8:05 PM

The sequence where Ennis visits Jack's parents and goes through Jack's bedroom is one of the most heart-rending things I've ever seen on a screen. Even if I never see this again, the image of Ennis holding those shirts will be with me for the rest of my life.

I went to see it with my best friend, who is also my brother-in-law (he's married to my sister). I think he enjoyed it as much as I did. Immediately afterward, he said he choked up at the scene in Jack's bedroom but that otherwise the film didn't appeal to him much since he never has cared for love stories. Then last night, almost 24 hours later, he called me and said he couldn't stop thinking about it and that if a good drama is supposed to make you think then this one succeeded better than anything he could remember.

AbE: Sorry Mark, I didn't see your question before I posted (but I did answer it). :D

This message has been edited by berberry, 01-15-2006 07:09 PM

Message 52 of 71 (389414) 01-15-2006 9:49 PM

Reply to: Message 51 by mark24 01-15-2006 8:47 PM

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Whadayareckon?

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I agree with you entirely. Those shots were a blur, which gave me the exact same impression.