Message 31 of 268 (391024) 06-05-2006 9:52 AM

Reply to: Message 29 by bcw3 06-01-2006 6:10 PM

Read it here:

http://kingsnet.kings.k12.ca.us/kcoe/curric/history/animals/california_grizzly.htm

THere has never been a wild brown bear known to have weighed 2,200 pounds, though there was one Kodiak that was fed constantly in a Berlin Zoo that was said to have reached 2500 lbs. The heaviest weights for Brown Bears are recorded in the 1600-1760 lbs range (See Robert H. Busch "The Grizzly Almanac" page 22, and page 192 of "Smithsonian Institution: Animal" under Brown Bear subspecies)
Now there was a bear called the Giant Short Faced Bear, or Arctodus Simus that weighed up to 2,200 pounds and reached 5 feet at the whithers, but that bear was related more to the Spectacled Bears, not Brown Bears.

Edited by LudoRephaim, : No reason given.

Message 32 of 268 (391025) 06-05-2006 9:55 AM

Reply to: Message 25 by psaghafi 05-30-2006 3:54 PM

I'll reply in depth later, but you did a good job! Thank you for adding to this discussion:)

Message 33 of 268 (391026) 06-05-2006 9:59 AM

Reply to: Message 23 by bcw3 05-29-2006 10:32 AM

And of course the Liger, a lion/tiger hybrid which can weigh over 1000 lbs, would definitely have a much stronger paw swipe than a Lion in absolute terms.

Message 34 of 268 (391027) 06-08-2006 3:31 PM

Reply to: Message 33 by LudoRephaim 06-05-2006 9:59 AM

also here

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lion

males average 420

and here lions average 330lbs to 550lbs

http://library.thinkquest.org/11922/cats/lion.htm

and here male lion averages 330-530 pounds, http://users.netropolis.net/nahury1/lion.htm

Message 35 of 268 (391028) 06-08-2006 3:33 PM

Reply to: Message 34 by bcw3 06-08-2006 3:31 PM

The tiger has a longer body, and is usually more powerful in the back legs, having evolved this way for great speed and unmatched leaping power. The lion evolved primarily for fighting, with a larger head and more power in the forequarters. Paradoxically this has made him a poor predator

http://www.lairweb.org.nz/tiger/conflict8.html

Message 36 of 268 (391029) 06-08-2006 3:36 PM

Reply to: Message 35 by bcw3 06-08-2006 3:33 PM

http://www.notfrisco.com/calmem/bears/

"THE grizzly bear is a lordly animal. An ordinary-sized one will weigh from nine hundred to twelve hundred pounds, a large one a ton."

so i agree with you that a 900-1200 grizzly will beat a lion or tiger, im just saying that at equal weights, a lion or tiger will beat a grizzly

Message 38 of 268 (391031) 06-08-2006 3:41 PM

Reply to: Message 37 by bcw3 06-08-2006 3:39 PM

The great lions of the Tsaro pride are larger, more fearsome and more innovative than your typical lion. These enormous lions have thick necks and heavy chests built to wade through water and hunt places big cats normally avoid. Trapped on an island with these giant killers are thousands of buffalo who are forced to devise defensive tactics and eventually learn to fight back. See the battle unfold from a unique perspective as National Geographic Channel tracks the movements from the air and up close.

http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/channel/relentless/videoPreview.html

Message 39 of 268 (391032) 06-08-2006 3:45 PM

Reply to: Message 38 by bcw3 06-08-2006 3:41 PM

The exceptionally large and aggressive Tsaro lions are unlike any in the world.

http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/channel/relentless/photogallery_lion_mist.html#photo

also when did u prove to me a bear is lb for lb stronger than a big cat, the book cats by gary nuback claims that cats are stronger than all carnivores besides badgers lb for lb

Message 40 of 268 (391033) 06-08-2006 3:48 PM

Reply to: Message 39 by bcw3 06-08-2006 3:45 PM

The rich surroundings and unique environment of the Okavango River Delta have morphed the Tsaro lions into huge, thick-necked beasts. Far more aggressive and dangerous than their cousins on the Serengeti, these lions defy what we thought we knew about big cats. Normally lazy males attack viciously as lionesses wade through water for a better angle on their prey.

http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/channel/relentless/showDescription.html

sure ur serenghetti lion might only weigh 400lbs but these lions are around 500lbs considering a lioness according to relentless enemies is 360lbs on average in the delta then since males are 40-50 percent larger a male would weigh 470-520

Message 41 of 268 (391034) 06-10-2006 4:55 PM

Reply to: Message 34 by bcw3 06-08-2006 3:31 PM

20 extra pounds makes a Big difference?

What comes between 330 and 530?

Message 42 of 268 (391035) 06-10-2006 5:12 PM

Reply to: Message 36 by bcw3 06-08-2006 3:36 PM

You know more thann the California department of fish and game? The site I posted had info from it.

THe weights this individual you quoted are on target for large males coastal Brown Bears, but the "up to a ton" remark is still unproven. THe heaviest Bears ever recored (ie Brown Bears) where in the 1656-1760 lb range. Grizzlies in the 2,000 lb range are either 1. Eceptional giants whose weights where never recorded (4 scholalry bear books I have at home never make mention of such a giant) or 2. plain fantasy (Bear Expert Robert H. Bucsh says as such in his book)

Now Polar Bears have been known to hit 2,000 pounds (See page 32 of "Eyewitness Books: Artic and Antartic")And it is shown in "Smithsonian Intittution:animal" than the upper size range for big browns is 2,200 lbs (THough this is far more likely attributing to zoo bear weights)but when it comes to the heaviest documented Brown Bear, the weight still stands at 1656-1760 lbs.

And rememebr that female grizzlies can be anywhere from 1/2 to 2/3 the weight of a male (Grizzly Almanac, pages 22-23, Bears of the world by Lance Craighead, page 128)If the male galifornia grizzly averaged 900-1200 lbs, then females could be in a 450-800 lbs neighborhood. Not counting smaller than average male and female bears.

I'm not convinced that the Grizzly that fought the lion was 1200 lbs or above.

Message 43 of 268 (391036) 06-10-2006 5:18 PM

Reply to: Message 39 by bcw3 06-08-2006 3:45 PM

in message 13 I quoted a few sources that made the claim. I also quoted in message 18 "Bears" by Ian Sterling that said so (this book was written by top-notch sceintists)

The "Strength" your book is describing is most likely what we call "Power" which is different from strength. If it is talking about strength proper, then it is wrong.

Edited by LudoRephaim, : No reason given.

Message 44 of 268 (391037) 06-10-2006 5:23 PM

Reply to: Message 35 by bcw3 06-08-2006 3:33 PM

LIons do indeed seem to have the stronger paw swipe than the amur tiger. But in relative terms the Jaguar would have the stronger paw swipe than african lions. And in absolute terms, the 1400 lbs Liger would have the stronger paw swipe. Though trying to get a test on Ligers and their striking force would be difficult: They are not a ferocious as African Lions.

You do know about the Barbary Lion? It was the Lion species that was used in the Coliseum, supposidly to devour Christians (I'm not sure that ever truly happened, but the legend persists)

I'll post a wikipedia article and others to show shortly.

Message 45 of 268 (391038) 06-10-2006 5:35 PM

Reply to: Message 40 by bcw3 06-08-2006 3:48 PM

http://www.lairweb.org.nz/tiger/conflict13.html