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Author Topic:   How to let people show their ... stupidity?
xongsmith
Member
Posts: 2574
From: massachusetts US
Joined: 01-01-2009
Member Rating: 5.4


Message 16 of 54 (597741)
12-23-2010 6:57 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by Coyote
12-23-2010 4:18 PM


Re: topic
Coyote, thank you for trying to provide some balance. Are you arguing that Judson Phillips and Mark Williams were using the technique of hyperbole to the same kind of level that Rep. Hank Johnson did?

- xongsmith, 5.7d

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by Coyote, posted 12-23-2010 4:18 PM Coyote has seen this message but not replied

  
Taz
Member (Idle past 3281 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 17 of 54 (597744)
12-23-2010 8:21 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by Coyote
12-23-2010 4:18 PM


Re: topic
Coyote writes:
Taz, because of you I'm abandoning this thread.
From your posts it looks like we will only be allowed to poke fun at the silly sayings of those on the right.
What on earth are you talking about? I poke fun of people on the left all the time. But I do it in good conscience. I don't resort to outright misrepresentation.
I would have been all "hardy har har" had you simply been poking fun at that quote. Why? Because it is pretty funny. But you went beyond that. You literally suggested that the guy was a dumbass in believing an island could literally be tipped over.
That said, I need to leave now to send out some last minute holiday stuff. Hopefully, fedex is still open.

This message is a reply to:
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Panda
Member (Idle past 3703 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 18 of 54 (597751)
12-23-2010 8:46 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by Taz
12-23-2010 3:59 PM


Re: topic
Taz writes:
It's not about quote mining people in order to make them look stupid.
I do not see the quote-mine.
He spent ages identifying that the island was narrow and then said "My fear is that the whole island ... will tip over and capsize".
He then said "And also things like the environment..."
Clearly he was talking about two different things: Capsizing and then environmental damage.
This also undermines his later defence: "I was using a metaphor to say it ... could be a tipping point which would adversely affect the island’s fragile ecosystem".
Just listen to his discussion of the island's dimensions...
You can clearly hear that something is not right with him.
Edited by Panda, : formatting
Edited by Panda, : extended 1st quote

This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by Taz, posted 12-23-2010 3:59 PM Taz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 19 by ringo, posted 12-23-2010 8:55 PM Panda has replied
 Message 21 by Taz, posted 12-23-2010 9:17 PM Panda has replied
 Message 23 by RAZD, posted 12-23-2010 9:47 PM Panda has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 402 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 19 of 54 (597753)
12-23-2010 8:55 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by Panda
12-23-2010 8:46 PM


Re: topic
Panda writes:
He spent ages identifying that the island was narrow and then said "it will tip over and capsize".
Just slap some outriggers on it. It'll be fine.

"I'm Rory Bellows, I tell you! And I got a lot of corroborating evidence... over here... by the throttle!"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by Panda, posted 12-23-2010 8:46 PM Panda has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 20 by Panda, posted 12-23-2010 9:08 PM ringo has not replied

  
Panda
Member (Idle past 3703 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 20 of 54 (597755)
12-23-2010 9:08 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by ringo
12-23-2010 8:55 PM


Re: topic
Ringo writes:
Just slap some outriggers on it.
Aaah...but how long should they be?
Guam is:
"at its widest level is 12 miles from shore to shore"
and
"at its smallest level - smallest location - it's 7 miles between one shore and the other."
and
"about 24 miles long"
TBH: I think it will be ok.
The island shouldn't capsize.
To quote the Admiral:
*stunned pause*
"We don't anticipate that."
Edited by Panda, : No reason given.

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 Message 19 by ringo, posted 12-23-2010 8:55 PM ringo has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 22 by Taz, posted 12-23-2010 9:24 PM Panda has not replied

  
Taz
Member (Idle past 3281 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 21 of 54 (597756)
12-23-2010 9:17 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by Panda
12-23-2010 8:46 PM


Re: topic
Panda writes:
He spent ages identifying that the island was narrow and then said "it will tip over and capsize".
Yup, which was his entire point. The island is narrow and quite small relative to how many people they wanted to put on the island. The tipping over and capsizing was a poor attempt at humorously trying to make the point that the island was too small to place that many people there, from his point of view.
This also undermines his later defence: "I was using a metaphor to say it ... could be a tipping point which would adversely affect the island’s fragile ecosystem".
How so? His point was that what the navy's proposing might be too many people for that island.
Just listen to his discussion of the island's dimensions...
You can clearly hear that something is not right with him.
I belong to the old school of thought, which gives people the benefit of the doubt. When someone says something and all you have to interpret his point is that single statement, and there are 2 possible interpretations, it is always the wise thing to go with the interpretation that makes more sense.
For example. Suppose I want you to get something for me from the basement. You go down to the basement and you yell up to me asking "where is it?" How would you feel if I respond with "it's in the basement, dumbass". Get it?
When you asked "where is it?" there are two different ways I can interpret the question. I can interpret you to mean where is it in the house (as in which section of the house it's in) or where is it specifically in the basement? Clearly, if I respond with "it's in the basement" then I'm going with the first interpretation, which assumes you to be a dumbass, since I was the one that sent you down there.
Watching that video again, I still don't see how you could insist that the guy was idiotic enough to even believe an island could be capsized. It looked more to me like he was trying to make the point that placing that many people on there could overwhelm the island. Whether this is a valid point or not I don't know. But the capsizing thing very likely was just his way of trying to make a joke out of a serious point.
Last thanksgiving, Obama specifically said "I wanted to eat this sucker..." Does this mean that he literally thought the turkey was a sucker? If so, what kind of sucker was the turkey?
On this forum, I often refer to Percy as god and the members as the "inhabitants" of evc. OMG, does this mean that I literally believe Percy is the almighty and the rest of us literally live in cyberspace?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by Panda, posted 12-23-2010 8:46 PM Panda has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 24 by Panda, posted 12-23-2010 9:55 PM Taz has replied

  
Taz
Member (Idle past 3281 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 22 of 54 (597758)
12-23-2010 9:24 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by Panda
12-23-2010 9:08 PM


Re: topic
Panda writes:
To quote the Admiral:
*stunned pause*
"We don't anticipate that."
Have you never seen someone trying to make a bad joke and other people gasp in disbelief because they didn't get the joke? This time last year, we had a get together with some of our friends. Somehow, the topic of stereotype came up. The asian in the group said he knew 4 forms of martial arts. I said I couldn't jump. The overweight girl said "you guys want some food? I got some here". At the time, we all literally thought she had some food not because we believed that but because it just never occurred to us of the stereotype that fat people always have food with them. Someone else awkwardly asked "really?"
Still seems to me like he was trying to make the point that the island was too narrow and too small for that many people. And he thought he'd make the joke that it could capsize.
Either that or he really is a dumbass, something which you are too ready to accept I guess.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by Panda, posted 12-23-2010 9:08 PM Panda has not replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1395 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 23 of 54 (597766)
12-23-2010 9:47 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by Panda
12-23-2010 8:46 PM


fair and balanced ... or something
Everyone,
I agree that he made a boner statement, and it was clear to me listening to the tape (are we gonna have another tapegate?) that he said it and then seguayed to the population density issue. The only thing I also notice is that the source coyote quoted also said
quote:
UPDATE: For what it's worth, Johnson apparently has Hepititis C, which means "he regularly gets lost in thought in the middle of a discussion. He is easily fatigued and often impatient and irritable." But I'm not sure that accounts for what's going on here.
As someone who has experience "chemo-brain" - the adverse effect on mental activity due to the chemical medications taken (made me more like common folk? ) - I can sympathize with someone saying something that did not come out entirely as conceived, however in that case one should not be driving the bus.
Enjoy.
What is Chemo Brain? | American Cancer Society
Chemo brain - Symptoms and causes - Mayo Clinic
Cancer Survivors Message 217

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by Panda, posted 12-23-2010 8:46 PM Panda has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 25 by Omnivorous, posted 12-23-2010 10:34 PM RAZD has replied

  
Panda
Member (Idle past 3703 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 24 of 54 (597768)
12-23-2010 9:55 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by Taz
12-23-2010 9:17 PM


Re: topic
Taz writes:
Panda writes:
He spent ages identifying that the island was narrow and then said "it will tip over and capsize".
Yup, which was his entire point. The island is narrow and quite small relative to how many people they wanted to put on the island.
Your response is only relevant if you pull my sentence out of context.
quote:
He spent ages identifying that the island was narrow and then said "My fear is that the whole island ... will tip over and capsize".
He then said "And also things like the environment..."
Clearly he was talking about two different things: Capsizing and then environmental damage.
Taz writes:
Panda writes:
This also undermines his later defence: "I was using a metaphor to say it ... could be a tipping point which would adversely affect the island’s fragile ecosystem".
How so? His point was that what the navy's proposing might be too many people for that island.
The answer to this question is available in the above full quote.
You will find that what I say makes more sense when individual sentences are not omitted or pulled out of context.
Taz writes:
The tipping over and capsizing was a poor attempt at humorously trying to make the point that the island was too small to place that many people there, from his point of view.
By poor attempt, do you mean that no-one there thought it was a joke - and he didn't deliver it like it was a joke - and no-one laughed.
If it doesn't walk like a duck and it doesn't quack like a duck - I belong to the old school of thought, which gives people the benefit of the doubt so I say that it isn't a duck.
Taz writes:
Panda writes:
Just listen to his discussion of the island's dimensions...
You can clearly hear that something is not right with him.
I belong to the old...[snip]... literally live in cyberspace?
None of that relates to what he says.
Just listen to his discussion of the island's dimensions...
Taz writes:
Have you never seen someone trying to make a bad joke and other people gasp in disbelief because they didn't get the joke?
TBH: I have seen more people say something dumb and then claim it was just a joke.
Taz writes:
Either that or he really is a dumbass, something which you are too ready to accept I guess.
I am just describing what I see.
You can think him intelligent if you want, something which you are too ready to accept I guess.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by Taz, posted 12-23-2010 9:17 PM Taz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 26 by Taz, posted 12-23-2010 11:23 PM Panda has seen this message but not replied

  
Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3973
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 6.9


(1)
Message 25 of 54 (597775)
12-23-2010 10:34 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by RAZD
12-23-2010 9:47 PM


Must be the drugs - Can't post to the correct topic
RAZD writes:
As someone who has experience "chemo-brain" - the adverse effect on mental activity due to the chemical medications taken (made me more like common folk? ) - I can sympathize with someone saying something that did not come out entirely as conceived, however in that case one should not be driving the bus.
Hi, RAZD.
I'm all too familiar with chemical brain, though not chemo brain.
An auto accident eight years ago left me with cervical spine and leg damage, treated with bone grafts and titanium braces in my spine, treatment with steroids, potent anti-inflammatories, etc.
Complications due to these drugs in turn led to GI issues requiring further surgery (and additional complications) and drug therapy: Six trips to the OR in the past two years, and a (hopefully) last major operation in a few months to remove a considerable amount of damaged intestine.
After startling moments of emotional lability and disinhibition (there are subjects I cannot discuss without sobbing--the subjects appear to be random, including, of all things, sidewalk chalk), I was diagnosed with traumatic brain injury.
At times I am taking as many as a dozen different drugs--opiates, anti-seizure meds, combination antibiotics, steroids, anti-virals, and so on. Sometimes I have difficulty remembering which drug side-effect another drug is supposed to remedy, and it feels like I am nestled like a Russian doll in outer shells of drugs, like capsules inside capsules.
Presently I am recovering from a major shingles eruption (I bet you are familiar with that), but feel more myself, now that I am down to a half dozen drugs and tapering off opiates, neurontin and prednisone.
I'm sure other members here have noted the emotionally labile behavior (though they couldn't hear me sobbing) as well as the disinhibition and clouded thinking. The impulse to explain to others that what they see at those times are injury, illness and drug effects--not the native me--is strong...as you can see.
Sorry, all, if that is TMI. I've become socially infamous locally for saying what pops into my mind at the most inauspicious moments.
All of this is my way of saying I understand, if not the experience of your cancer, at least your struggle to regain the dream of health and the need to measure the cost of regaining it.
Your frankness and determination have encouraged me these past few years. Thank you.
{Ding-dong meant to post the above as a reply to this message at another topic. - Adminnemooseus}
Edited by Omnivorous, : No reason given.
Edited by Omnivorous, : No reason given.
Edited by Adminnemooseus, : Off-topic banner etc.

I know there's a balance, I see it when I swing past.
-J. Mellencamp
Real things always push back.
-William James

This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by RAZD, posted 12-23-2010 9:47 PM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 44 by RAZD, posted 12-25-2010 10:45 AM Omnivorous has not replied

  
Taz
Member (Idle past 3281 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 26 of 54 (597778)
12-23-2010 11:23 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by Panda
12-23-2010 9:55 PM


Re: topic
Panda writes:
You can think him intelligent if you want, something which you are too ready to accept I guess.
Where the hell did you get this idea? I don't know the guy. Can't say I knew his existence before today. I'm just not willing to accept that there is someone as dumb and clueless as you make him out to be.
Added by edit.
To be fair, a while back someone told me that Kent Hovind literally believes that the way human dna combines to create a new life is the dna "ladder" would disconnect right down the middle of the ladder and the separated strands from mom and dad would connect with each other to make a new dna "ladder". This is, of course, nonsense. And for the longest time, I refused to believe that Kent Hovind believes this. Wasn't until I saw Hovind's whole lecture video did I realize Hovind really believes this. I still have the video somewhere. Actually, this gives me an idea. I'm going to start putting Hovind's videos on youtube.
Edited by Taz, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by Panda, posted 12-23-2010 9:55 PM Panda has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
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anglagard
Member (Idle past 827 days)
Posts: 2339
From: Socorro, New Mexico USA
Joined: 03-18-2006


Message 27 of 54 (597785)
12-24-2010 3:14 AM
Reply to: Message 26 by Taz
12-23-2010 11:23 PM


Knowledge: It's Not Only a Virtue, It's the Law
Taz writes:
I'm going to start putting Hovind's videos on youtube.
You sure they are not there already?
My workplace naturally has the capability of duplicating pretty much any media to any form. Around once a year, I get someone who wants us to duplicate Hovind or Comfort or some other bigoted idiot. All I have to say is the magic word 'copyright' and the perp is dumbfounded. And then all I have to say is it is illegal to use state resources to promote a specific interpretation of a specific religious persuasion and even the perps seem to understand that Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, Catholics, Muslims, and indeed even Jews may have some pretty sharp lawyers.
Knowing the law is part of what it takes to survive in a management position.

The idea of the sacred is quite simply one of the most conservative notions in any culture, because it seeks to turn other ideas - uncertainty, progress, change - into crimes.
Salman Rushdie
This rudderless world is not shaped by vague metaphysical forces. It is not God who kills the children. Not fate that butchers them or destiny that feeds them to the dogs. It’s us. Only us. - the character Rorschach in Watchmen

This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by Taz, posted 12-23-2010 11:23 PM Taz has not replied

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 Message 28 by Dr Adequate, posted 12-24-2010 6:22 AM anglagard has seen this message but not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 274 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(1)
Message 28 of 54 (597790)
12-24-2010 6:22 AM
Reply to: Message 27 by anglagard
12-24-2010 3:14 AM


Re: Knowledge: It's Not Only a Virtue, It's the Law
My workplace naturally has the capability of duplicating pretty much any media to any form. Around once a year, I get someone who wants us to duplicate Hovind or Comfort or some other bigoted idiot. All I have to say is the magic word 'copyright' and the perp is dumbfounded.
I seem to remember that Hovind has waived copyright where his works are used for educational purposes without charge.
I'm way too lazy to look this up.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by anglagard, posted 12-24-2010 3:14 AM anglagard has seen this message but not replied

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Taz
Member (Idle past 3281 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 29 of 54 (597812)
12-24-2010 9:49 AM
Reply to: Message 28 by Dr Adequate
12-24-2010 6:22 AM


Re: Knowledge: It's Not Only a Virtue, It's the Law
{edit}
After reading up on it, apparently, the law permits kent hovind to retract his statement about the noncopyrighted nature of his videos. And he's done just that.
And jar, I couldn't find Hovind's explanation of the dna combination between mom and dad anywhere on youtube. I've seen the video, so I know it exists.
Edited by Taz, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by Dr Adequate, posted 12-24-2010 6:22 AM Dr Adequate has not replied

  
Taz
Member (Idle past 3281 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 30 of 54 (597816)
12-24-2010 10:12 AM


Speaking of stupidity, here is an honest stupid person who answered his own questions.

Replies to this message:
 Message 31 by frako, posted 12-24-2010 10:32 AM Taz has not replied

  
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