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Author Topic:   The Barbarity of Christianity (as compared to Islam)
Faith
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Posts: 25267
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 1 of 299 (285241)
02-09-2006 2:16 PM


Jar wants an opportunity to prove that Christians are just as barbarous as Muslims. Here it is.

I will be happy to compare the barbarity of Christianity and Islam at any time. But there has never been a more intolerant, barbaric movement on earth than Christianity.

This is not the place though to continue this discussion. Simply start a thread on it.

www.evcforum.net/cgi-bin/dm.cgi?action=msg&f=19&t=348&m=31 -->www.evcforum.net/cgi-bin/dm.cgi?action=msg&f=19&t=348&m=31">http://www.evcforum.net/cgi-bin/dm.cgi?action=msg&f=19&t=348&m=31

=====================================
REWORDED IN KEEPING WITH ADMINPHAT'S ADVICE.
=====================================

This message has been edited by Faith, 02-09-2006 02:26 PM

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by AdminPhat, posted 02-09-2006 2:22 PM Faith has responded
 Message 5 by jar, posted 02-10-2006 12:59 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
AdminPhat
Administrator
Posts: 1800
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-03-2004
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 2 of 299 (285245)
02-09-2006 2:22 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Faith
02-09-2006 2:16 PM


Turn the other cheek
Now, Faith...I know that Jar raises your hackles, but we dont attack the person here...you know that! Rewrite this O.P. into a topic with your side of the belief expressed and then provide brief links...we will go from there. I'll give you until February 16th.



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  • Edited by AdminPhat, : No reason given.



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  • This message is a reply to:
     Message 1 by Faith, posted 02-09-2006 2:16 PM Faith has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 3 by Faith, posted 02-09-2006 2:24 PM AdminPhat has not yet responded

      
    Faith
    Member
    Posts: 25267
    From: Nevada, USA
    Joined: 10-06-2001
    Member Rating: 1.1


    Message 3 of 299 (285247)
    02-09-2006 2:24 PM
    Reply to: Message 2 by AdminPhat
    02-09-2006 2:22 PM


    Re: Turn the other cheek
    That IS turning the other cheek, Phat. I want to give jar an opportunity to say whatever he pleases. I don't really have any interest in it.

    Oh, but in keeping with your advice I have reworded it.

    ABE: Jar has many times challenged me to start another thread on something he wants the opportunity to answer, whether I am interested in pursuing it or not. This time I simply decided to do it.

    This message has been edited by Faith, 02-09-2006 02:30 PM


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 2 by AdminPhat, posted 02-09-2006 2:22 PM AdminPhat has not yet responded

      
    Adminnemooseus
    Director
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    Message 4 of 299 (285252)
    02-09-2006 2:37 PM


    Thread moved here from the Proposed New Topics forum.
      
    jar
    Member
    Posts: 29018
    From: Texas!!
    Joined: 04-20-2004
    Member Rating: 2.6


    Message 5 of 299 (285559)
    02-10-2006 12:59 PM
    Reply to: Message 1 by Faith
    02-09-2006 2:16 PM


    setting the record straight
    Just for the record and the sake of those who may not have read the original thread, I took exception to Faith's comments such as

    Faith writes:

    I would consider it a useful reminder of the barbarous nature of Islam, and hope that that is what would be conveyed to others who are under the delusion that all religions are the same -- same as I view these riots against the cartoons to be a revelation of the same barbarity that is at the heart of Mohammedanism.

    Historically, Islam has been a religion of tolerance, while Christianity has been just the opposite, a religion of Intolerence.

    As a Christian, I believe that we need to realize this failing in our Faith, and to work towards making Christianity more tolerant. Christianity has a long history of simply destroying other cultures and religions and in legally mandating either conversion, expulsion or death. Its internal wars and conflicts have been as violent as any seen in the Islamic world, and have continued from the very beginning, when Constantine made Christianity the State Religion right down to the sectarian violence in Ireland of recent memory.

    Some examples:


    • when the conquistadors arrived in South America they burned all of the religious tracts they found and outlawed the practice of any religion except Christianity.
    • North American Indian children were forced from their homes, their clothing changed, hair cut, language forbidden and the Christian religion forced upon them.
    • Jews were expelled from England in 1290 under the Edict of Expulsion. They were barred from the Isles until the mid 1600s.
    • in the 1400s all Jews were expelled from Spain. Interestingly, it was the Islamic world that opened its arms to them, even sending fleets of ships to take them back to the Islamic world and providing them with homes and opportunity.
    • Jews were required throughout Europe to live in Ghettos, and were restricted in what positions or emplyment they could hold.
    • throughout the Christian World, witches were killed, usually through burning.
    • as far back as 1215, the Fourth Council of the Lateran required that Jews wear identifying marks or clothes.
    • the Crusades which were attempts to redirect internal violence towards a non-aggressive outside neighbor.
    • a continuing practice of outlawing other religions such as the banning of the old ways that happened in Hawaii.
    • the Wars of the Reformation including the Peasants War which began in 1524 and on through the Thirty Years War.
    • the four Great Inquistions beginning with the Middle Ages Inquisition of 1184.

    Faith's own post, which begins this message, is yet another example of the intolerance of many Christians. In her post, she describes the heart of Islam to be barbarity, even though the historical facts do not support her assertion.

    If Christianity is ever to live up to the calling of being Christ-like, we, as Christian, must recongnize that in the past, Christianity has been brutal and intolerant and that even today, many Christian sects are continuing the tradition of intolerance and oppression.

    Most merciful God,we confess that we have sinned against thee
    in thought, word, and deed,
    by what we have done,
    and by what we have left undone.
    We have not loved thee with our whole heart;
    we have not loved our neighbors as ourselves.
    We are truly sorry and we humbly repent.
    For the sake of your Son Jesus Christ,
    have mercy on us and forgive us;
    that we may delight in thy will,
    and walk in your ways,
    to the glory of your Name. Amen.


    Aslan is not a Tame Lion
    This message is a reply to:
     Message 1 by Faith, posted 02-09-2006 2:16 PM Faith has not yet responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 6 by randman, posted 02-10-2006 1:15 PM jar has responded
     Message 59 by Garrett, posted 02-15-2006 4:33 PM jar has responded
     Message 79 by inkorrekt, posted 06-29-2006 10:23 PM jar has not yet responded
     Message 214 by Tal, posted 02-09-2007 6:51 PM jar has responded
     Message 298 by IamJoseph, posted 12-04-2007 3:09 AM jar has not yet responded

    randman 
    Suspended Member (Idle past 2339 days)
    Posts: 6367
    Joined: 05-26-2005


    Message 6 of 299 (285571)
    02-10-2006 1:15 PM
    Reply to: Message 5 by jar
    02-10-2006 12:59 PM


    Re: setting the record straight
    Jar, what you point to are practices of Christianity that did not exist for the first several centuries and don't exist now either. Historically, we all know that early Christianity mutated with Roman Empire as the empire decided to adopt Christianity but with conditions rather than keep trying to stamp it out. So the Roman Empire and those believers inclined towards certain beliefs changed Christianity, and from that stemmed all the persecutions you refer to.

    But as reading and understanding the Bible became more prevalent again, the views justifying violence began to fade and Christianity began to return to it's original doctrines leaving the Catholic (and early Protestant) aberrations aside.

    Islam, on the other hand, started and spread through violence, and it's more peaceful and tolerant periods are more of the aberration, and can be explained not as real tolerance, but as part of their intolerance. For example, Muslims wanted the Jews because they felt usury and thus banking was inappropiate for a Muslim. So yea, they welcomed the Jews, but not as equals.


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 5 by jar, posted 02-10-2006 12:59 PM jar has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 7 by Omnivorous, posted 02-10-2006 1:30 PM randman has not yet responded
     Message 8 by jar, posted 02-10-2006 1:42 PM randman has responded
     Message 23 by macaroniandcheese, posted 02-10-2006 11:28 PM randman has not yet responded

    Omnivorous
    Member (Idle past 408 days)
    Posts: 3808
    From: Adirondackia
    Joined: 07-21-2005


    Message 7 of 299 (285583)
    02-10-2006 1:30 PM
    Reply to: Message 6 by randman
    02-10-2006 1:15 PM


    Re: setting the record straight
    randman writes:

    For example, Muslims wanted the Jews because they felt usury and thus banking was inappropiate for a Muslim. So yea, they welcomed the Jews, but not as equals.

    You understand this also applies to Christian nations in the Middle Ages and Early Modern periods? Shakespeare documented this nicely (or not so nicely, depending on your perspective).


    "Dost thou think because thou art virtuous there shall be no more cakes and ale?"
    -Sir Toby Belch, Twelfth Night

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    This message is a reply to:
     Message 6 by randman, posted 02-10-2006 1:15 PM randman has not yet responded

      
    jar
    Member
    Posts: 29018
    From: Texas!!
    Joined: 04-20-2004
    Member Rating: 2.6


    Message 8 of 299 (285593)
    02-10-2006 1:42 PM
    Reply to: Message 6 by randman
    02-10-2006 1:15 PM


    Re: setting the record straight
    Jar, what you point to are practices of Christianity that did not exist for the first several centuries and don't exist now either.

    We don't have much information about the first few centuries of Christianity, so there is little we can say with authority about that period. In addition, until it was adopted as the official religion of the State by Constantine, it was but another of the minor religious sects out there and so pretty much incapable of oppressing anyone.

    As to the second part of your statemnt, whether it exists today, I also demonstrated that the practices of intolerance continue today. The late troubles in Ireland, Faith's very own words and examples like the attempts to oppress segments of the American population that continue today support my contention.

    The rest of your post relating to Islamic practices are pointless and off topic anyway. This thread is not about whether or not some other religion sucks, it's about Christianity, and historically, Christianity has been about the most violent, intolerant force on earth.


    Aslan is not a Tame Lion
    This message is a reply to:
     Message 6 by randman, posted 02-10-2006 1:15 PM randman has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 9 by randman, posted 02-10-2006 2:13 PM jar has responded
     Message 46 by truthlover, posted 02-14-2006 12:11 PM jar has responded
     Message 118 by randman, posted 07-24-2006 3:32 PM jar has responded

    randman 
    Suspended Member (Idle past 2339 days)
    Posts: 6367
    Joined: 05-26-2005


    Message 9 of 299 (285627)
    02-10-2006 2:13 PM
    Reply to: Message 8 by jar
    02-10-2006 1:42 PM


    Re: setting the record straight
    We don't have much information about the first few centuries of Christianity, so there is little we can say with authority about that period.

    A weasel statement...we have plenty of evidence actually. Moreover, historically you are just plain wrong to assert that Christianity has been the most violent and oppressive force on earth.

    Let me ask you this. Do you believe that Jesus commanded violence and oppression? Is Jesus the originator of an evil force on earth, in your opinion?


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 8 by jar, posted 02-10-2006 1:42 PM jar has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 10 by crashfrog, posted 02-10-2006 2:14 PM randman has responded
     Message 12 by jar, posted 02-10-2006 2:17 PM randman has responded

    crashfrog
    Inactive Member


    Message 10 of 299 (285629)
    02-10-2006 2:14 PM
    Reply to: Message 9 by randman
    02-10-2006 2:13 PM


    Re: setting the record straight
    Do you believe that Jesus commanded violence and oppression?

    You tell me. Did he come to bring peace, or a sword?


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 9 by randman, posted 02-10-2006 2:13 PM randman has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 11 by randman, posted 02-10-2006 2:16 PM crashfrog has not yet responded
     Message 35 by Buzsaw, posted 02-13-2006 11:54 PM crashfrog has responded

    randman 
    Suspended Member (Idle past 2339 days)
    Posts: 6367
    Joined: 05-26-2005


    Message 11 of 299 (285631)
    02-10-2006 2:16 PM
    Reply to: Message 10 by crashfrog
    02-10-2006 2:14 PM


    Re: setting the record straight
    A spiritual sword, not a natural one.
    This message is a reply to:
     Message 10 by crashfrog, posted 02-10-2006 2:14 PM crashfrog has not yet responded

    Replies to this message:
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    jar
    Member
    Posts: 29018
    From: Texas!!
    Joined: 04-20-2004
    Member Rating: 2.6


    Message 12 of 299 (285632)
    02-10-2006 2:17 PM
    Reply to: Message 9 by randman
    02-10-2006 2:13 PM


    Jesus vs Christianity?
    Let me ask you this. Do you believe that Jesus commanded violence and oppression? Is Jesus the originator of an evil force on earth, in your opinion?

    Not at all. Of course, he was not a Christian, but rather a nice Jewish boy.

    The Map is not the Territory randman. The question is whether or not Christianity as it has been practiced down through the ages is at all Christ-like. And sadly, history and compemporary life, say that the answer is a resounding "No!"


    Aslan is not a Tame Lion
    This message is a reply to:
     Message 9 by randman, posted 02-10-2006 2:13 PM randman has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 13 by randman, posted 02-10-2006 2:25 PM jar has responded

    randman 
    Suspended Member (Idle past 2339 days)
    Posts: 6367
    Joined: 05-26-2005


    Message 13 of 299 (285639)
    02-10-2006 2:25 PM
    Reply to: Message 12 by jar
    02-10-2006 2:17 PM


    Re: Jesus vs Christianity?
    Uh, how do you know what is Christ-like? You discount the early church, the gospels as authoritative, etc,...

    So why do you think you know what Christ was like, jar?


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 12 by jar, posted 02-10-2006 2:17 PM jar has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 14 by jar, posted 02-10-2006 2:54 PM randman has responded

    jar
    Member
    Posts: 29018
    From: Texas!!
    Joined: 04-20-2004
    Member Rating: 2.6


    Message 14 of 299 (285650)
    02-10-2006 2:54 PM
    Reply to: Message 13 by randman
    02-10-2006 2:25 PM


    What is Christ-like?
    Is burning someone at the stake Christ-like?


    Aslan is not a Tame Lion
    This message is a reply to:
     Message 13 by randman, posted 02-10-2006 2:25 PM randman has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 15 by randman, posted 02-10-2006 3:02 PM jar has responded
     Message 221 by gene90, posted 02-10-2007 2:02 PM jar has responded

    randman 
    Suspended Member (Idle past 2339 days)
    Posts: 6367
    Joined: 05-26-2005


    Message 15 of 299 (285654)
    02-10-2006 3:02 PM
    Reply to: Message 14 by jar
    02-10-2006 2:54 PM


    Re: What is Christ-like?
    You going to answer or not, jar?

    I don't discount the things you do, and so it is consistent with my beliefs to say what is Christ-like, but you, on the other hand, have no real basis, do you, for knowing what is Christ-like?


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 14 by jar, posted 02-10-2006 2:54 PM jar has responded

    Replies to this message:
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