Now, Faith...I know that Jar raises your hackles, but we dont attack the person here...you know that! Rewrite this O.P. into a topic with your side of the belief expressed and then provide brief links...we will go from there. I'll give you until February 16th.
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Just for the record and the sake of those who may not have read the original thread, I took exception to Faith's comments such as
I would consider it a useful reminder of the barbarous nature of Islam, and hope that that is what would be conveyed to others who are under the delusion that all religions are the same -- same as I view these riots against the cartoons to be a revelation of the same barbarity that is at the heart of Mohammedanism.
Historically, Islam has been a religion of tolerance, while Christianity has been just the opposite, a religion of Intolerence.
As a Christian, I believe that we need to realize this failing in our Faith, and to work towards making Christianity more tolerant. Christianity has a long history of simply destroying other cultures and religions and in legally mandating either conversion, expulsion or death. Its internal wars and conflicts have been as violent as any seen in the Islamic world, and have continued from the very beginning, when Constantine made Christianity the State Religion right down to the sectarian violence in Ireland of recent memory.
when the conquistadors arrived in South America they burned all of the religious tracts they found and outlawed the practice of any religion except Christianity.
North American Indian children were forced from their homes, their clothing changed, hair cut, language forbidden and the Christian religion forced upon them.
Jews were expelled from England in 1290 under the Edict of Expulsion. They were barred from the Isles until the mid 1600s.
in the 1400s all Jews were expelled from Spain. Interestingly, it was the Islamic world that opened its arms to them, even sending fleets of ships to take them back to the Islamic world and providing them with homes and opportunity.
Jews were required throughout Europe to live in Ghettos, and were restricted in what positions or emplyment they could hold.
throughout the Christian World, witches were killed, usually through burning.
as far back as 1215, the Fourth Council of the Lateran required that Jews wear identifying marks or clothes.
the Crusades which were attempts to redirect internal violence towards a non-aggressive outside neighbor.
a continuing practice of outlawing other religions such as the banning of the old ways that happened in Hawaii.
the Wars of the Reformation including the Peasants War which began in 1524 and on through the Thirty Years War.
the four Great Inquistions beginning with the Middle Ages Inquisition of 1184.
Faith's own post, which begins this message, is yet another example of the intolerance of many Christians. In her post, she describes the heart of Islam to be barbarity, even though the historical facts do not support her assertion.
If Christianity is ever to live up to the calling of being Christ-like, we, as Christian, must recongnize that in the past, Christianity has been brutal and intolerant and that even today, many Christian sects are continuing the tradition of intolerance and oppression.
Most merciful God,we confess that we have sinned against thee in thought, word, and deed, by what we have done, and by what we have left undone. We have not loved thee with our whole heart; we have not loved our neighbors as ourselves. We are truly sorry and we humbly repent. For the sake of your Son Jesus Christ, have mercy on us and forgive us; that we may delight in thy will, and walk in your ways, to the glory of your Name. Amen.
Jar, what you point to are practices of Christianity that did not exist for the first several centuries and don't exist now either. Historically, we all know that early Christianity mutated with Roman Empire as the empire decided to adopt Christianity but with conditions rather than keep trying to stamp it out. So the Roman Empire and those believers inclined towards certain beliefs changed Christianity, and from that stemmed all the persecutions you refer to.
But as reading and understanding the Bible became more prevalent again, the views justifying violence began to fade and Christianity began to return to it's original doctrines leaving the Catholic (and early Protestant) aberrations aside.
Islam, on the other hand, started and spread through violence, and it's more peaceful and tolerant periods are more of the aberration, and can be explained not as real tolerance, but as part of their intolerance. For example, Muslims wanted the Jews because they felt usury and thus banking was inappropiate for a Muslim. So yea, they welcomed the Jews, but not as equals.
Jar, what you point to are practices of Christianity that did not exist for the first several centuries and don't exist now either.
We don't have much information about the first few centuries of Christianity, so there is little we can say with authority about that period. In addition, until it was adopted as the official religion of the State by Constantine, it was but another of the minor religious sects out there and so pretty much incapable of oppressing anyone.
As to the second part of your statemnt, whether it exists today, I also demonstrated that the practices of intolerance continue today. The late troubles in Ireland, Faith's very own words and examples like the attempts to oppress segments of the American population that continue today support my contention.
The rest of your post relating to Islamic practices are pointless and off topic anyway. This thread is not about whether or not some other religion sucks, it's about Christianity, and historically, Christianity has been about the most violent, intolerant force on earth.
Let me ask you this. Do you believe that Jesus commanded violence and oppression? Is Jesus the originator of an evil force on earth, in your opinion?
Not at all. Of course, he was not a Christian, but rather a nice Jewish boy.
The Map is not the Territory randman. The question is whether or not Christianity as it has been practiced down through the ages is at all Christ-like. And sadly, history and compemporary life, say that the answer is a resounding "No!"