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Author Topic:   Things evolutionists can't (or can???) explain?
working out eating chips
Member (Idle past 1125 days)
Posts: 1623
Joined: 01-12-2004


Message 1 of 46 (54654)
09-09-2003 11:19 PM


Hi, evolutionists please discuss here if you think that things like time and light (previously discussed by Wise), inertia, gravity, etc. etc..... can ever be explained through your theory and if you have a theory on how these things came to be, write away.
Thanks I'm just curious, oh and how the ingredients for the big bang got there????? Any ideas?

Discuss.

------------------
"I AM THE MESSENJAH"

contact me for any reason at: messenjahjr@yahoo.com


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 Message 4 by PaulK, posted 09-10-2003 3:58 AM working out eating chips has responded
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NosyNed
Member
Posts: 8800
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003
Member Rating: 10.0


Message 2 of 46 (54656)
09-09-2003 11:34 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by working out eating chips
09-09-2003 11:19 PM


Mess, why do you think this has anything to do with this forum?

This isn't about all of physics and cosmology you know. Or rather, I guess you don't know.

The orgin of the universe is, at best, rather distantly connected to the nature of life on earth. Why would you go off on such an enormous tangent?

On top of that, I doubt whether you would have a teeny tiny chance of understanding even the roughest outline of the present understanding of these topics.

Special relativity isn't all that hard, general relativity is. Quantum mechanics is weird even to those who are experts in it. How much effort are you willing to put into trying to understand all this?


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crashfrog
Inactive Member


Message 3 of 46 (54659)
09-09-2003 11:47 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by working out eating chips
09-09-2003 11:19 PM


Turnabout is fair play: please explain how your Bible-based Creationism explains how to make the perfect cheese danish. Oh? It can't? Well, then, clearly we've just proven the Bible false.
This message is a reply to:
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PaulK
Member
Posts: 13297
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 4 of 46 (54691)
09-10-2003 3:58 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by working out eating chips
09-09-2003 11:19 PM


Well MessnjaH I expect you accept another theory related to biology - the germ theory of disease.

Do you think that that theory can ever explain things like time, light, inertia and gravity ?

If not what conclusions should we draw from this fact ?


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Replies to this message:
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Dr Jack
Member
Posts: 3506
From: Leicester, England
Joined: 07-14-2003


Message 5 of 46 (54703)
09-10-2003 6:03 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by working out eating chips
09-09-2003 11:19 PM


As others have pointed out this has nothing to do with evolution. However, some (many?) of us also hold an atheist worldview, and this question is a valid challenge to that.

The answers are: we don't know, and we don't know respectively.

A slightly more meaningful answer is this; the standard model explains some but not all of the the properties of physical entities, I imagine in the coming years we'll construct a model that explains more, and eventually all of these properties.

The 'stuff' for the big bang. Don't know. My prefered answer is nowhere. Your question only makes sense if the big bang is viewed as a change, since time came into existence with the bang, there is no before the bang, so the big bang has before to have changed from. This is a wild guess however, and no doubt those more up to date with the latest findings of astrophysics will mock it.

As Dawkins pointed out any being capable of creating the universe must be more complicated than the universe, and thereby more in need of an explanation.


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MarkAustin
Member (Idle past 1402 days)
Posts: 122
From: London., UK
Joined: 05-23-2003


Message 6 of 46 (54718)
09-10-2003 7:34 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by working out eating chips
09-09-2003 11:19 PM


Big Bang
quote:
oh and how the ingredients for the big bang got there????? Any ideas?

Two points:

1: the Big Bang was not an explosion in space/time but an explosion of space time. In the jargon it is a singularity - a point where the physical laws break down. Neither time nor space existed "before" the Big Bang (using before in a metaphysical sense).

2: If, as seems likely the total energy of the Universe is 0 (Total mass/energy - gravitational potential = 0), then the Universe could bootstrap itself into existance. There are a number of competing theories that show just how this could happen. The phenomenom of creating batter is well demonstrated in particle accellerators, where a particle and its complementary anti-particle can be created without energy input. Since the total energy of the two is 0, there is no breach of the Law of Conservation of Mass/Energy.


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working out eating chips
Member (Idle past 1125 days)
Posts: 1623
Joined: 01-12-2004


Message 7 of 46 (54842)
09-10-2003 10:56 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by crashfrog
09-09-2003 11:47 PM


"Turnabout is fair play: please explain how your Bible-based Creationism explains how to make the perfect cheese danish. Oh? It can't? Well, then, clearly we've just proven the Bible false."

I asked a logical and an important question yet you compared it to a trivial question. So I am right in assuming noone has an explanation for this, besides complaining about what forum this topic is in???? Oh and crashfrog, a question that your beliefs have no explanation for is considered not "fair play" or cheating? All I have to say is: WOW
AND
THANKS

------------------
"I AM THE MESSENJAH"

contact me for any reason at: messenjahjr@yahoo.com

[This message has been edited by messenjaH, 09-10-2003]


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working out eating chips
Member (Idle past 1125 days)
Posts: 1623
Joined: 01-12-2004


Message 8 of 46 (54844)
09-10-2003 11:00 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by PaulK
09-10-2003 3:58 AM


huh?
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working out eating chips
Member (Idle past 1125 days)
Posts: 1623
Joined: 01-12-2004


Message 9 of 46 (54845)
09-10-2003 11:03 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by Dr Jack
09-10-2003 6:03 AM


quote:
I imagine in the coming years we'll construct a model that explains more, and eventually all of these properties.

How exactly could you or would you or how would you imagine this?

------------------
"I AM THE MESSENJAH"

contact me for any reason at: messenjahjr@yahoo.com

[This message has been edited by messenjaH, 09-12-2003]


This message is a reply to:
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working out eating chips
Member (Idle past 1125 days)
Posts: 1623
Joined: 01-12-2004


Message 10 of 46 (54846)
09-10-2003 11:04 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by working out eating chips
09-10-2003 11:03 PM


Hey Percy, any ideas why the quote bars didn't appear? Thanks.
This message is a reply to:
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Asgara
Member
Posts: 1783
From: Wisconsin, USA
Joined: 05-10-2003


Message 11 of 46 (54848)
09-10-2003 11:11 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by working out eating chips
09-10-2003 11:04 PM


Messenjah,

you have your closing tag in front and your opening tag at the end....the tag with the / goes at the end of your quote

------------------
Asgara
"An unexamined life is not worth living" Socrates via Plato


This message is a reply to:
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crashfrog
Inactive Member


Message 12 of 46 (54849)
09-10-2003 11:12 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by working out eating chips
09-10-2003 10:56 PM


a question that your beliefs have no explanation for is considered not "fair play" or cheating?

Well, you tell me. What do your beliefs say concerning the preparation of cheese danishes? After all, Christianity and cheese danishes have as much to do with each other as evolution and cosmology. If you're asking meaningless questions don't blame me if you get a meaningless answer.


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PaulK
Member
Posts: 13297
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 13 of 46 (54872)
09-11-2003 3:45 AM
Reply to: Message 8 by working out eating chips
09-10-2003 11:00 PM


Would you like to expand on your answer ? I suggest that you pay particular attention to my second question.
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Dr Jack
Member
Posts: 3506
From: Leicester, England
Joined: 07-14-2003


Message 14 of 46 (54879)
09-11-2003 5:47 AM
Reply to: Message 9 by working out eating chips
09-10-2003 11:03 PM


How exactly could you or would you or how would you imagine this?

There was an article discussing it recently in the Scientific American. As our knowledge has progressed we have been able to give more and better reasons for those things we already know. Our current best model (the Standard Model) gives stageringly accurately results, but while it predicts the existence of certain particles (Higgs Bosons, for example) it does not precisely predict it's properties. In the future I expect we will form a theory that does.

I personally have no idea how we'll do this; I'm not a Physicist. However, when an expert in their field tells me something is so I tend to believe them.


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sidelined 
Inactive Suspended Member


Message 15 of 46 (55032)
09-11-2003 9:57 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by working out eating chips
09-09-2003 11:19 PM


Messanjah Sorry for joining this discussion a little late but could you specify for me what aspect of time light inertia gravity etc you would like to know in relation to evolutionary theory?
This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by working out eating chips, posted 09-09-2003 11:19 PM working out eating chips has not yet responded

  
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