Message 18 of 161 (236866) 08-25-2005 2:36 PM

I grew up reading Evolution in text books just like everybody else. I never really questioned it even though I was a christian from 8 years old. It was presented as fact, so that is what I took it as.

My senior year is when I started REALLY questioning. Not just evolution, but everything. Christianity? Was God real? How do I really know if He is or not? What makes the christian God real and other gods fakes? Maybe ther religions have it right? Was the earth really that old? Did we evolve from rocks?

What really drove me from evolution was college, when my Bio 101 class went through the early stages of evolution (when life started from nothing and how it evolved into more complex life). My teacher was very good. He stated, "We think this is how A and B happened...and from C to F, we have no idea how that could have happened. There is a gap, but we think from F to G..."

That's what got me heading to library.

Message 19 of 161 (236868) 08-25-2005 2:40 PM

Reply to: Message 17 by Lam 08-25-2005 2:30 PM

That analogy doesn't work.

Never has.

Message 20 of 161 (236877) 08-25-2005 2:58 PM

Reply to: Message 19 by Tal 08-25-2005 2:40 PM

What about the germ theory of disease?

This message has been edited by GAW-Snow, 08-25-2005 02:58 PM

Message 21 of 161 (236883) 08-25-2005 3:02 PM

Reply to: Message 18 by Tal 08-25-2005 2:36 PM

My offer still stands. It's your chance to really make me look like a dumbass.

Message 22 of 161 (236884) 08-25-2005 3:02 PM

Reply to: Message 20 by Lam 08-25-2005 2:58 PM

Funny, it is defines as a law in the dictionary.

The bottom line is, the theory of evolution will remain a theory until empircal data is obtained that proves that dogs can produce non-dogs and/or dogs came from rocks 4.6 billion years ago.

Message 23 of 161 (236886) 08-25-2005 3:04 PM

Reply to: Message 21 by Lam 08-25-2005 3:02 PM

Always love to see the evidence!

Show me where there is empirical data that a dog can produce a non-dog and/or a dog came from a rock 4.6 billion years ago.

Go!

Message 24 of 161 (236888) 08-25-2005 3:13 PM

Reply to: Message 15 by hoaryhead 08-25-2005 2:28 PM

I swear, this is what irks me more than anything else in the Creation vs Evolution debate.

Only a theory?

By the definition most Creationists (and unfortunately even non-Creationist laymen) use for "theory," a theory is nothing more than an idea that popped into someone's head. By this definition, theories carry no weight of evidence, have not been tested, and any idea is just as good as any other. This is why we see idiots like the Kansas State School Board voting for equal time for "alternative theories." After all, if Evolution is "just a theory," then any other idea someone comes up with is just as valid.

A Scientific Theory, on the other hand, is far more significant than a simple guess. A scientific hypothesis must propose a mechanism that produces falsifiable predictions. To attain the status of a Theory, a hypothesis must be repeatedly tested and retested by scientists around the world. It must withstand the rigors of the peer review process. It must have supporting evidence. It must become widely accepted by the scientific community as a highly accurate description of the natural process it describes.

Theories include the Theory of Gravity, the Theory of Relativity, and, of course, the Theory of Evolution. All of these theories have been tested and retested. Scientists around the world have made their best efforts to find evidence which would falsify them and failed to do so. These theories so accurately describe their respective natural mechanisms that we base entire branches of science on them. Where would Astronomy and Physics be without Relativity or Gravity? WHere would Biology and Pharmacology be without Evolution? We understand these ideas to be the most accurate descriptions available of all of the evidence gathered to date.

Whenever as Creationist says "it's just a theory," it becomes obvious that the Creationist has literally no idea what they are talking about.

Message 25 of 161 (236905) 08-25-2005 3:47 PM

Reply to: Message 24 by Rahvin 08-25-2005 3:13 PM

Law of universal gravitation

When you produce evidence that a dog can produce a non-dog or that a dog came from a rock 4.6 billion years ago, I'll believe your theory.

Message 26 of 161 (236916) 08-25-2005 4:01 PM

Reply to: Message 25 by Tal 08-25-2005 3:47 PM

Please show where the Theory of Evolution predicts either of those events or assumes they happened in the past.

Message 27 of 161 (236918) 08-25-2005 4:02 PM

Reply to: Message 25 by Tal 08-25-2005 3:47 PM

The reason they called these things laws because back then people were convinced that everything had to make sense and absolute. They called them laws because they thought those could explain everything. Scientists are less certain nowadays. That is why they call them theories rather than laws.

For example, Newton's laws of motion. Sure, those are called laws that could explain everything until the ultraviolet catastrophe. Google it if you don't know what I'm talking about.

Tal, please get to know a little more about science before continuing on your little barrage.

Message 28 of 161 (236919) 08-25-2005 4:03 PM

Reply to: Message 25 by Tal 08-25-2005 3:47 PM

Back to the old head in the hole arguement.

It's useless to debate this with Tal. He's one of those guys we were talking about in the 1-10 string.

He says, "species 1 never becomes species 10."
We say, "we'll, no, not in one jump. We have evidence of 3, 5, 7 and 8."
He says, "oh, yeah, well where's number 2?"
we say, "Wow, we just found number 2 in a fossil bed in China."
he says, "Yeah, well, where's 1.5? Where's 1.25? Where's 1.125? I won't be happy until you show me fossils of every single offspring all the way down the line."

You aren't going to convince his type with fact or with science. They believe what they believe because they lack education. The lightswitch works through magic. The computer works through magic. Animals came to earth by magic. Lightning and thunder are magic. It's a really easy way to define the world.

Message 29 of 161 (236921) 08-25-2005 4:09 PM

Reply to: Message 18 by Tal 08-25-2005 2:36 PM

How did god do it?

Message 30 of 161 (236923) 08-25-2005 4:10 PM

Reply to: Message 28 by Nuggin 08-25-2005 4:03 PM

As a matter of fact, has anyone here ever engaged in an evidence based conversation with Tal about evolution or bang big?