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Author Topic:   Why, if god limited man's life to 120 years, did people live longer?
imageinvisible
Member (Idle past 2414 days)
Posts: 132
From: Arlington, Texas, US
Joined: 12-03-2007


Message 121 of 230 (438777)
12-06-2007 9:04 AM
Reply to: Message 108 by Refpunk
08-18-2007 11:04 AM


Hmmm
The secound 120 yr life span limit wasn't set until Moses died. Noah and his decendants, because they had been blessed by God where excluded from the time constrant set in Gen.6:3. And no one has lived past 120 yrs. old since Moses died.

I have been reading the book of Deuteronomy where Moses dies and have found no verse that states that God put a secound 120 year life limit on man after Moses died. So my initial claim (The secound 120 yr life span limit wasn't set until Moses died) is invalid, the Bible does not suport it. Therefore my claim (And no one has lived past 120 yrs. old since Moses died.) is also invalid

Edited by imageinvisible, : No reason given.

Edited by imageinvisible, : Added text in qs box

Edited by imageinvisible, : closing box

Edited by imageinvisible, : re: 120 years


21 Yet these may ye eat of every flying creeping thing that goeth upon [all] four, which have legs above their feet, to leap withal upon the earth;

22 [Even] these of them ye may eat; the locust after his kind, and the bald locust after his kind, and the beetle after his kind, and the grasshopper after his kind


This message is a reply to:
 Message 108 by Refpunk, posted 08-18-2007 11:04 AM Refpunk has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 122 by Rahvin, posted 12-06-2007 9:34 AM imageinvisible has not yet responded
 Message 123 by Rahvin, posted 12-07-2007 10:32 PM imageinvisible has not yet responded
 Message 129 by imageinvisible, posted 12-09-2007 9:30 PM imageinvisible has not yet responded

  
Rahvin
Member
Posts: 3961
Joined: 07-01-2005
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 122 of 230 (438782)
12-06-2007 9:34 AM
Reply to: Message 121 by imageinvisible
12-06-2007 9:04 AM


Re: Hmmm
And no one has lived past 120 yrs. old since Moses died.

You are mistaken.

quote:
The longest unambiguously documented lifespan is that of Jeanne Calment of France (1875–1997), who was aged 122 years.

From here.

And she's simply the oldest documented and confirmed human being.

Apparently, not only did Noah and his family get some sort of exclusion to God's normally unbendable rules, some random lady from France got special consideration as well.


Every time a fundy breaks the laws of thermodynamics, Schroedinger probably kills his cat.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 121 by imageinvisible, posted 12-06-2007 9:04 AM imageinvisible has not yet responded

  
Rahvin
Member
Posts: 3961
Joined: 07-01-2005
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 123 of 230 (439257)
12-07-2007 10:32 PM
Reply to: Message 121 by imageinvisible
12-06-2007 9:04 AM


Re: Hmmm
No reply yet, imageinvisible? If the Bible said that no human can live past 120, (not counting Noah for the sake of the argument), and a human being in actual, documented fact did live past 120 in recent living memory, does that not mean that the Bible cannot be infallible?

Further, doesn't this prove that you started with the conclusion that the Bible is infallible, and made a claim (that no human being since Noah has lived past 120 years) without first doing even the most base research? I mean, I found that Wiki article in under a minute.


Every time a fundy breaks the laws of thermodynamics, Schroedinger probably kills his cat.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 121 by imageinvisible, posted 12-06-2007 9:04 AM imageinvisible has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 124 by bluescat48, posted 12-07-2007 11:00 PM Rahvin has not yet responded

  
bluescat48
Member (Idle past 685 days)
Posts: 2347
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2007


Message 124 of 230 (439261)
12-07-2007 11:00 PM
Reply to: Message 123 by Rahvin
12-07-2007 10:32 PM


Re: Hmmm
The silence is deafening


There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other
This message is a reply to:
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 Message 125 by IamJoseph, posted 12-08-2007 4:04 AM bluescat48 has not yet responded

    
IamJoseph
Member (Idle past 164 days)
Posts: 2822
Joined: 06-30-2007


Message 125 of 230 (439292)
12-08-2007 4:04 AM
Reply to: Message 124 by bluescat48
12-07-2007 11:00 PM


Re: Hmmm
Anyone have any idea what this refers to - it seems to suggest that time, thereby years, were different prior to Noah than now:

quote:
Oct. 25, 1404 BCE/ Mars passes Earth 70,000 miles away, causing a 5 degree Polar shift and longer days on Earth.

Creation Research Society and Creation Science and other Creationism sites that bend time

http://www.wilsonmar.com/1history.htm



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 Message 126 by Rahvin, posted 12-08-2007 4:13 AM IamJoseph has not yet responded
 Message 127 by sidelined, posted 12-08-2007 9:55 AM IamJoseph has not yet responded

    
Rahvin
Member
Posts: 3961
Joined: 07-01-2005
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 126 of 230 (439295)
12-08-2007 4:13 AM
Reply to: Message 125 by IamJoseph
12-08-2007 4:04 AM


Re: Hmmm
Oct. 25, 1404 BCE/ Mars passes Earth 70,000 miles away, causing a 5 degree Polar shift and longer days on Earth.

Creation Research Society and Creation Science and other Creationism sites that bend time

Assuming for the sake of argument that this is true, it's still irrelevant. Making a day slightly longer (say, perhaps a day was 23 hrs previously) would not make the passage of the Earth around the Sun any longer. It just changes the amount of days it takes to do so. What you're trying to propose is that, by slowing down a clock, the passage of time actually changes as well.

That's retarded.

If you change the length of a ruler, I don't become any taller or shorter. Measurements are subjective.

And even if your misinformed idea did lengthen years along with days, that would mean that 122 modern years would be even longer than the same amount of time prior to this supposed polar shift.

In other words, it makes your position even worse off.


Every time a fundy breaks the laws of thermodynamics, Schroedinger probably kills his cat.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 125 by IamJoseph, posted 12-08-2007 4:04 AM IamJoseph has not yet responded

  
sidelined 
Inactive Suspended Member


Message 127 of 230 (439322)
12-08-2007 9:55 AM
Reply to: Message 125 by IamJoseph
12-08-2007 4:04 AM


Re: Hmmm
IamJoseph

Oct. 25, 1404 BCE/ Mars passes Earth 70,000 miles away, causing a 5 degree Polar shift and longer days on Earth.

Well you tell me what you think the effect would be of a planet 5 times larger than the moon coming within a third of the orbital distance from earth to the moon?

Do you believe that planets orbit the sun at the distances they do arbitrarily and can move about wherever the notion takes them? They orbit the sun at the distances they do as a result of binding physics that require them to behave this way.

And it might do you good to question what the evidence for such a statement is in the first place eh?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 125 by IamJoseph, posted 12-08-2007 4:04 AM IamJoseph has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
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Rahvin
Member
Posts: 3961
Joined: 07-01-2005
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 128 of 230 (439368)
12-08-2007 1:49 PM
Reply to: Message 127 by sidelined
12-08-2007 9:55 AM


Re: Hmmm
His link leads to a site I'd expect to find talked about on Coast to Coast or some other such UFO/psychic/ghosts/conspiracy program. In fact, I believe I once heard a program talking about something along these lines - the "evidence" was the running theme of disaster in ancient texts. Somehow natural disasters from legends and myths = ZOMG A PLANET MUST HAVE PASSED CLOSE THE THE EARTH!

Sounds about right up IaJ's alley, but certainly not worthy of anything more than a good laugh from rational people.


Every time a fundy breaks the laws of thermodynamics, Schroedinger probably kills his cat.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 127 by sidelined, posted 12-08-2007 9:55 AM sidelined has not yet responded

  
imageinvisible
Member (Idle past 2414 days)
Posts: 132
From: Arlington, Texas, US
Joined: 12-03-2007


Message 129 of 230 (439700)
12-09-2007 9:30 PM
Reply to: Message 121 by imageinvisible
12-06-2007 9:04 AM


Re: Hmmm
Isaiah 53:10b When You make His soul an offering for sin, He shall see [His] seed, He shall prolong [His] days, And the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in His hand. 11 He shall see the labor of His soul, [and] be satisfied.

"J'ai été oubliée par le Bon Dieu!" ("I have been forgotten by the Good Lord!")


This message is a reply to:
 Message 121 by imageinvisible, posted 12-06-2007 9:04 AM imageinvisible has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
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 Message 131 by Rahvin, posted 12-10-2007 9:41 PM imageinvisible has responded

  
Rahvin
Member
Posts: 3961
Joined: 07-01-2005
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 130 of 230 (439721)
12-10-2007 1:07 AM
Reply to: Message 129 by imageinvisible
12-09-2007 9:30 PM


Re: Hmmm
Isaiah 53:10b When You make His soul an offering for sin, He shall see [His] seed, He shall prolong [His] days, And the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in His hand. 11 He shall see the labor of His soul, [and] be satisfied.

"J'ai été oubliée par le Bon Dieu!" ("I have been forgotten by the Good Lord!")

It sounds like you're trying to say that faith in Jesus can make your life longer. Is that what you're trying to say? Please, give us some actual comments in your own words rather than a bare Bible quote - it helps everyone figure out exactly what you're saying.

Assuming that IS your point...you said just a few posts ago that "no one has lived over 120 years since Noah." I take it you're retracting that statement?

Also...most people don't live remotely close to 120, even if they are Christians, so it doesnt seem apparent to me that your above reference could possibly be speaking about the previously set 120-year limit to human lifespans. I think your argument is flimsy at best.

Jeanne Calment, the 122-year-old woman, attributed her longevity to "olive oil, which she said she poured on all her food and rubbed into her skin." See here. Wouldn't someone who had made "His soul an offering for sin," have mentioned God when asked a question like that? The French quote at the end of your post was by Jeanne, but the vast majority of people who make similar statements don't even live to 100, let alone 120. Is God so capricious as to allow his most devout followers to die at an average age in the 70s, but occasionally allow a single, random believer to live past his imposed life limit?

Is it not a fact that the average lifespan in a given area tends to increase with better medical care, and has nothing to do with the religion of the population?

Is it not a fact that when extremely devout Christians eschew medical technology and care in favor of "faith healing," they tend to die, and not God does not in fact "prolong [their] days"?

Most importantly, "prolonging his days" doesn't have anything to do with the lifespan limit previously set. It sounds to me like it refers to living more of the potential 120 years (which Ill give you just for the sake of the argument, despite the fact that I find the claim that Christians live longer than non-Christians as implied in your quote to be absurd).

The fact is, the Bible says God limited the human lifespan to 120 years.

The fact is, it has been verified beyond doubt that people can and have lived beyond that limit.

It is therefor a fact that the Bible cannot be inerrant when it states that the human lifespan is limited to 120 years.


Every time a fundy breaks the laws of thermodynamics, Schroedinger probably kills his cat.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 129 by imageinvisible, posted 12-09-2007 9:30 PM imageinvisible has not yet responded

  
Rahvin
Member
Posts: 3961
Joined: 07-01-2005
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 131 of 230 (439918)
12-10-2007 9:41 PM
Reply to: Message 129 by imageinvisible
12-09-2007 9:30 PM


Re: Hmmm
I hate to bump, but I'd really like to see a reply from imageinvisible.


Every time a fundy breaks the laws of thermodynamics, Schroedinger probably kills his cat.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 129 by imageinvisible, posted 12-09-2007 9:30 PM imageinvisible has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 132 by imageinvisible, posted 12-13-2007 3:02 PM Rahvin has not yet responded

  
imageinvisible
Member (Idle past 2414 days)
Posts: 132
From: Arlington, Texas, US
Joined: 12-03-2007


Message 132 of 230 (440522)
12-13-2007 3:02 PM
Reply to: Message 131 by Rahvin
12-10-2007 9:41 PM


Re: Hmmm
see message 121, new text added in quote box.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 131 by Rahvin, posted 12-10-2007 9:41 PM Rahvin has not yet responded

  
rcmemphis
Junior Member (Idle past 1935 days)
Posts: 9
Joined: 01-18-2009


Message 133 of 230 (494785)
01-18-2009 4:04 PM


I believe that the bible is inerrant, and with any issue, uninformed or less studied Christians typically do not answer well to their atheist counterparts. Due to this, I suggest that atheist on this thread not only read the responses of counter arguments, but look to other research as well to make sure an accurate representation of the argument is being presented; I certainly do with the atheist arguments.

The disputed text is the following:

"And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years." Genesis 6:3.

"And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth." Genesis 6:13.

God states that he will destroy the flesh which is mankind. We know from the bible that people live longer than 120 years and there are apparently present day people who have lived longer than 120 years. It seems that the interpretation commonly taken by athiests and many Christians on this thread is incorrect, such would suggest a contradiction. A much more possible interpretation is that after God decrees that man will live 120 years, he is saying that he will destroy mankind in 120 years through the flood. It would take a long time to build the ark anyways.


Replies to this message:
 Message 134 by Larni, posted 01-18-2009 4:15 PM rcmemphis has responded
 Message 136 by Coyote, posted 01-18-2009 8:38 PM rcmemphis has responded

    
Larni
Member
Posts: 3779
From: UK
Joined: 09-16-2005
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 134 of 230 (494786)
01-18-2009 4:15 PM
Reply to: Message 133 by rcmemphis
01-18-2009 4:04 PM


Cherry picking, much?
This message is a reply to:
 Message 133 by rcmemphis, posted 01-18-2009 4:04 PM rcmemphis has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 135 by rcmemphis, posted 01-18-2009 7:45 PM Larni has responded

    
rcmemphis
Junior Member (Idle past 1935 days)
Posts: 9
Joined: 01-18-2009


Message 135 of 230 (494805)
01-18-2009 7:45 PM
Reply to: Message 134 by Larni
01-18-2009 4:15 PM


Oh, I'm sorry did you post something like that before? There's nothing wrong with sharing the same idea if its valid!
This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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 Message 159 by cjh7583, posted 05-05-2009 4:46 PM rcmemphis has not yet responded

    
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