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Author Topic:   The 2016 United States Presidential Election
Diomedes
Member
Posts: 995
From: Central Florida, USA
Joined: 09-13-2013


Message 16 of 892 (792468)
10-10-2016 10:02 AM
Reply to: Message 15 by RAZD
10-10-2016 9:48 AM


Re: PEEPING TOM @ Miss Universe
Frankly I am thoroughly disgusted by this years election garbage, these cess-pool occupying candidates, by far the worst choices in decades.
And this was echoed in the recent debate. I could only stomach watching parts of it. But I did watch some of the post-debate analysis. And one of the folks on CNN said that 'politics has sunk to a new low'. I would say that is probably accurate.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by RAZD, posted 10-10-2016 9:48 AM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 17 by RAZD, posted 10-10-2016 11:04 AM Diomedes has not replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


(1)
Message 17 of 892 (792474)
10-10-2016 11:04 AM
Reply to: Message 16 by Diomedes
10-10-2016 10:02 AM


Race to the Bottom
... I could only stomach watching parts of it. But I did watch some of the post-debate analysis. ...
I find it difficult to listen to either one, and each new revelation makes it that much worse.
... one of the folks on CNN said that 'politics has sunk to a new low'. I would say that is probably accurate.
It's like they are actively racing to the bottom to see how low they can go.
We just got back from 3 weeks in Canada, where headlines were about local politics, and it was quite a relief. My phone had no service (thanks Verizon) and we went from B&B to B&B up to Cape Breton and back, enjoying the views. Very therapeutic.
The only problem I had was our first night on the Bay of Fundy we went to these caves that were open to walk into at low tide but flooded at high tide so you could kayak into them, and I slipped on some seaweed and sprained my wrist -- the kayaks we brought stayed on the car for the duration of the trip.
Now I have to finish the all new front porch before winter.
Fun

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by Diomedes, posted 10-10-2016 10:02 AM Diomedes has not replied

  
14174dm
Member (Idle past 1109 days)
Posts: 161
From: Cincinnati OH
Joined: 10-12-2015


(4)
Message 18 of 892 (792476)
10-10-2016 12:49 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by RAZD
10-10-2016 9:48 AM


Re: PEEPING TOM @ Miss Universe
The Clinton machine built him up ...
Seriously? You don't think the GOP brought this on themselves?
The GOP is pandering only to the most right wing of its base. Anyone who advocates compromising or violating the sacred tenets (tax cuts for the rich, more military spending, etc.) is vilified as "RINO" - republican in name only - like it's a fundamentalist religion.
Middle & lower class Republicans see themselves treading water at best. Congress is doing nothing for them and the GOP presidential candidates are more of the same.
Of course Trump as new & different is going to get all the attention as well as the "he can't be any worse than what we've got" vote.
So the media takes it easy on Trump early on. First of all the media is looking for quick & easy stories that don't require time, money, or research. Second, Trump is more entertaining so the ratings are up.
The real research on Trump probably didn't really start until he had the nomination and was polling close to Clinton. Then people finally think " huh, I wonder what this guys really thinks and does since he might actually win."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by RAZD, posted 10-10-2016 9:48 AM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
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NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 19 of 892 (792482)
10-10-2016 1:46 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by 14174dm
10-10-2016 12:49 PM


Re: PEEPING TOM @ Miss Universe
Seriously? You don't think the GOP brought this on themselves?
They did. The idea that Clinton, or any democrat is responsible is pretty bizarre. But that is what Trump supporters might say. In a perverse way, one might state that Obama winning in 2008/2012 caused the immediate reaction of Republicans which led to the utter dissatisfaction with both parties. Hatred for democrats because of Obama, and hatred for Republicans because of their inability to focus on anything other than opposing Obama even after gaining control of the legislature.
But to make such statements is really to improperly assign responsibility. Republicans are responsible for their own policies or lack thereof. Perhaps a more positive set of policies, something other than making sure Obama gets only one term, attacking the ACA, and making sure Obama never wins, might have made a difference.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith

This message is a reply to:
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jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(2)
Message 20 of 892 (792484)
10-10-2016 3:08 PM


Hardly the worst election.
We need to remember just how nasty past US Presidential elections have been and understand that today we are simply scraping in bottom of a relatively clean stainless barrel instead of the older tar barrels. It's been quite awhile since a Congressman has been beaten with a cane while not just in-office but in his office or since one Congressman went after another with fire tongs or spit in another Congressman's face. We've survived President like Andrew Jackson and Ronald Reagan as well as James Buchanan, Milord Fillmore and Zachary Taylor.
The system set up in the US has proven to be remarkably resilient and that even the extreme sanction, sending kids off to get killed, has never been so destructive that the Nation itself has not been able to survive. With that one exception, the Federal Governments powers to adversely effect the average citizen is fortunately limited.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

Replies to this message:
 Message 99 by NoNukes, posted 10-20-2016 12:32 AM jar has replied

  
1.61803
Member (Idle past 1504 days)
Posts: 2928
From: Lone Star State USA
Joined: 02-19-2004


(3)
Message 21 of 892 (792487)
10-10-2016 4:05 PM


I will miss President Obama. He is one of the wisest, measured well spoken men I have ever come across. It is sad his presidency was mired with racism and obstructionism. One can only wonder how much he could of accomplished. He imo set a new standard for how a president should be. Classy, smart and most importantly the consummate statesman.
Donald, well is Donald.
Hillary we shall see what she can do. It looks like it may finally be her turn.

"You were not there for the beginning. You will not be there for the end. Your knowledge of what is going on can only be superficial and relative" William S. Burroughs

Replies to this message:
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 22 of 892 (792489)
10-10-2016 4:47 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by 14174dm
10-10-2016 12:49 PM


The Clinton Machine
Seriously? You don't think the GOP brought this on themselves?
The GOP set the groundwork via hate-media that enabled Trump to be a candidate, but the impetus for all that media coverage that he received gratus from the main-stream media came from the Clinton Machine using their "contacts" with the media (big donors) in order to get him to be the RNC candidate, even if they didn't like it.
Read the leaked emails -- it lays out this very game plan:
quote:
Leaked Emails Show That Trump Was a Tool Used by the Hillary Campaign From Day One
Calling them the "pied piper" candidates, team Hillary describes Trump, Cruz, and Carson as nominees that could - if handled properly - make the extreme the mainstream.
"We need to be elevating the Pied Piper candidates so that they are leaders of the pack and tell the press to them seriously," it said in the email.
The summary is that the DNC and the Clinton campaign wanted Trump to be Hillary's opponent because they knew his extreme stances could be used to alienate and divide. They could then use these candidates to paint the Republican party as a whole as something dangerous.
Trump was a tool for Hillary's campaign all along. She wanted the press to take Trump seriously, put him up as the most viable option for Republicans, and the right took the bait, hook, line, and sinker. Now with the Trump campaign burning to the ground, and GOP leaders walking away due to his recent comments, the Clinton campaign's plan to put Hillary on top is coming to fruition.
It wasn't just Bernie that they rigged the system against, they've been planning this for years, and you can bet they have dirt on every candidate, including LOTS on Trump, to release when needed.
Enjoy

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by 14174dm, posted 10-10-2016 12:49 PM 14174dm has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 23 by Theodoric, posted 10-10-2016 4:54 PM RAZD has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


(4)
Message 23 of 892 (792490)
10-10-2016 4:54 PM
Reply to: Message 22 by RAZD
10-10-2016 4:47 PM


Re: The Clinton Machine
Looks like a simple paper describing strategies to combat any GOP candidate. The Clinton campaign is not responsible for Trump. Have the used the gift given them by the GOP? Of course. They would be negligent if they had not. But the GOP and its voters are the only ones responsible for Trump.
If you have more evidence for your conspiracy theory present it. If this is it than your argument is laughable.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by RAZD, posted 10-10-2016 4:47 PM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 25 by RAZD, posted 10-10-2016 5:13 PM Theodoric has replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 24 of 892 (792492)
10-10-2016 4:58 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by 1.61803
10-10-2016 4:05 PM


I will miss President Obama. ...
Hillary we shall see what she can do. ...
If she can't win house and senate, particularly senate, they will hog-tie her like the did Obama. The emails may still sink her with low voter turnout and with high voter burnout.
If she does win big, as now seems increasingly possible with a 50 state plan, she can deal the GOP the ultimate irony: Obama as Supreme Court Justice (a position he is highly qualified for). I don't believe he would accept but it is a wonderful thought.
Then we will see what her private positions are instead of her public positions -- especially as regards Wells Fargo and then Wall Street in general.
Unfortunately the big loser will be climate change. Again.
Enjoy

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by 1.61803, posted 10-10-2016 4:05 PM 1.61803 has seen this message but not replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 25 of 892 (792494)
10-10-2016 5:13 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by Theodoric
10-10-2016 4:54 PM


Re: The Clinton Machine
The RNC wanted Bush. The media railroaded them into Trump -- all you need to do is look at all the anti-Trump republicans.
If you have more evidence for your conspiracy theory present it. If this is it than your argument is laughable.
You mean the rampant evidence of collusion of CNN MSNBC an other media with the Clinton campaign? Where the DNC and Clinton aides wrote the news? The collusion that resulted in a virtual blackout on the Bernie campaign while plastering Trump all over the place?
It's in the hacked emails.
Try google. Really. Or are you like Donna Brazile, afraid of the truth?
Just a moment...
Enjoy

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by Theodoric, posted 10-10-2016 4:54 PM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 26 by Theodoric, posted 10-10-2016 5:17 PM RAZD has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


(2)
Message 26 of 892 (792495)
10-10-2016 5:17 PM
Reply to: Message 25 by RAZD
10-10-2016 5:13 PM


Re: The Clinton Machine
Well since you claim it exists how about showing it.
You mean the rampant evidence of collusion of CNN MSNBC an other media with the Clinton campaign? Where the DNC and Clinton aides wrote the news?
Edited by Theodoric, : No reason given.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by RAZD, posted 10-10-2016 5:13 PM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 31 by Taq, posted 10-11-2016 4:56 PM Theodoric has not replied
 Message 49 by RAZD, posted 10-13-2016 8:59 AM Theodoric has replied

  
GDR
Member
Posts: 6202
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 27 of 892 (792497)
10-10-2016 5:24 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by RAZD
10-10-2016 9:48 AM


Re: PEEPING TOM @ Miss Universe
RAZD writes:
Frankly I am thoroughly disgusted by this years election garbage, these cess-pool occupying candidates, by far the worst choices in decades.
What do you mean decades? I can't in my wildest imagination believethat there were EVER two worse candidates. As has been said before: Clinton's biggest asset is that she isn't Trump, and Trump's greatest asset is the he isn't Clinton.

He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God.
Micah 6:8

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by RAZD, posted 10-10-2016 9:48 AM RAZD has replied

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ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(5)
Message 28 of 892 (792556)
10-11-2016 12:15 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by Percy
10-08-2016 1:56 PM


Re: More Backlash
Percy writes:
Trump seems unlikely to lose significant voter support, but you can't blame the voters. The message voters are sending this year is, "You politicians have done a terrible job running the country, we're angry, and we're demonstrating that anger by voting against anything smacking of the status quo."
"So we're cutting off our nose to spite our face."
In a democracy, I always blame the voters. My dad used to say that people get the government they deserve. That's why Canada's national sport is feeling superior to Americans.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by Percy, posted 10-08-2016 1:56 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 29 by Diomedes, posted 10-11-2016 1:30 PM ringo has replied

  
Diomedes
Member
Posts: 995
From: Central Florida, USA
Joined: 09-13-2013


(12)
Message 29 of 892 (792561)
10-11-2016 1:30 PM
Reply to: Message 28 by ringo
10-11-2016 12:15 PM


Recent Polls and Election Predictions
The current electoral map from Real Clear Politics has Clinton with a nearly 100 point advantage over Trump:
realclearpolitics.com
She is also ahead in most of the battleground states, including the critical ones of Ohio and Florida.
Just before the debate, Trump had narrowed the gap to within something that could be considered a 'reasonable chance'. But the recent debates along with his antics have basically imploded the campaign. So unless he pulls some massive rabbit out of his hat at the final debate, I don't see him turning things around.
One thing I wanted to add regarding the two candidates: I think there is a false equivalency going on here. Yes, Clinton has her problems. She is probably corrupt. She is a manipulator. She used her influence in the DNC to railroad Bernie. She probably has numerous skeletons in her closet. I acknowledge all of that.
But at least she is a politician with a pretty impressive pedigree and level of experience. While I can cite issues with her character, I also have to acknowledge her accomplishments.
Now look at Trump. I am not going to sugar coat this: he is a JOKE. A complete and utter joke. Not only does he have many of the same character flaws as Clinton, he also brings to the table absolutely no political experience. And to top it all off, his 'business experience' is a giant bullshit story. He has never disclosed his actual net worth. His tax returns remain hidden. In fact, the only window that we have into his actual business acumen are the items on record; his four bankruptcies and his near $1 billion (that's billion with a 'B') loss in 1995. In fact, the only thing he is running on is his fame. He is a glory hound and an attention whore. He saw an opportunity to elevate his status in this election cycle and he capitalized on it.
So who is ultimately to blame for the Trump candidacy? Many point fingers at the media for giving him free publicity. Many point to the voters and their ignorance. But the TRUE culprit and the root cause is actually the Republican party establishment. They are the ones that have been spoon-feeding their electorate an endless stream of rhetoric. They fueled the Tea Party fringe. They enabled the Birther Nuts. They rallied against immigrants and illegals. They were completely obstructionist in the House and Senate. They threw around terms like 'socialist', 'communist', 'marxist', etc. And their electorate just absorbed all of that.
And what happened? Trump. When you look at what he is and what he represents: he is literally the embodiment of ALL that rhetoric lumped into one human being. And by the time the GOP realized what had happened, it was too late.
The moral of the story is: never create a monster. Because it will eventually turn on you.
Perhaps it would be in the GOP's best interest to put down Ayd Rand's Atlas Shrugged and pick up a copy of Mary Shelley's Frankenstein. Maybe they might learn something.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by ringo, posted 10-11-2016 12:15 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 33 by ringo, posted 10-12-2016 11:42 AM Diomedes has replied
 Message 229 by Diomedes, posted 10-31-2016 11:21 AM Diomedes has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 9972
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.6


(1)
Message 30 of 892 (792565)
10-11-2016 4:54 PM


When your main argument is, "Hey fellow Republicans, I'm just as bad as Bill Clinton, so you should vote for me," you probably aren't going to win. And that is just skimming the surface of this rather shallow pond.

  
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