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Author Topic:   Darwin on the Savage races
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 31 of 114 (718283)
02-05-2014 10:59 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by Jaf
02-05-2014 10:02 PM


Imagine having to do th.e same thing with the bible when atheists misquote it.
Pfsh. Imagine. Consider it done. You can view my posting history.
But thanks for going to thr trouble. I like quotes too, coz they are quotes.
Take your time and slow down. "I like x because x=x" doesn't tell me much. There's no time constraints here. Go for quality over quantity. You don't have to reply to every-one/thing.
What do think he meant by savage races?
Well, he specifically mentioned the Fuegians --clicky
...and the qualities he brings forth are:
  • naked
  • bedaubed with paint
  • their long hair tangled
  • their mouths frothed with excitement
  • their expression was wild, startled, and distrustful.
  • They possessed hardly any arts
  • like wild animals lived on what they could catch
  • they had no government
  • merciless to every one not of their own small tribe
Sounds like the primitive peoples that Europeans encountered during their expansions. You know: Native Americans, Aboriginal Australians, Sub-Saharan Africans, whatever those Indonesians are, etc.
Isn't that what we mean by "savages"?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by Jaf, posted 02-05-2014 10:02 PM Jaf has not replied

New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 32 of 114 (718284)
02-05-2014 11:13 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by Jaf
02-05-2014 10:11 PM


What did he mean by savage races, common,the man said he would rather be a baboon or a monkey than a savage
That's not true.
First, he admits that he is a savage.
quote:
The main conclusion arrived at in this work, namely that man is descended from some lowly-organised form, will, I regret to think, be highly distasteful to many. But there can hardly be a doubt that we are descended from barbarians. The astonishment which I felt on first seeing a part of Fuegians on a wild and broken shore will never be forgotten by me, for the reflection at once rushed into my mind - such were our ancestors.
Second, the "baboon" and "monkey" that he refers to are metaphors for his ancestors that he is embracing.
quote:
These men were absolutely naked and bedaubed with paint, their long hair tangled, their mouths frothed with excitement, and their expression was wild, startled, and distrustful. They possessed hardly any arts, and like wild animals lived on what they could catch; they had no government, and were merciless to every one not of their own small tribe. He who has seen a savage in his native land will not feel much shame, if forced to acknowledge that the blood of some more humble creatures flows in his veins. For my own part I would soon be descended from that heroic little monkey who braved his dreaded enemy to save the life of his keeper, or that old baboon, who, descending the mountains, carried away in triumph his young comrade from a crowd of astonished dogs - as from a savage who delights to torture his enemies, offers up bloody sacrifices, practices infanticide without remorse, treats his wives like slaves, knows no decency, and is haunted by the grossest superstition.
He talks about how much those guys were savages, and then refers the monkey/baboon to provide a little contrast, to make the point that the reader isn't as far away from the monkey/baboon as they may have thought.
He's not saying that he would rather be a baboon than a savage, he's saying that we actually are the baboons already, and the savages are just another step that has been taken.
THen he gets into the whole part about how you fell were you did by luck and not by anything that you actually did, so your pride is actually misplaced even tho its obvious why you have it, and thus it is forgiveable.
Edited by Catholic Scientist, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by Jaf, posted 02-05-2014 10:11 PM Jaf has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 40 by Jaf, posted 02-05-2014 11:44 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 33 of 114 (718287)
02-05-2014 11:35 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by Jaf
02-05-2014 8:21 PM


Hitler allegedly was a big fan of Darwin's clearly racist views in that he was able to "scientifically supported" exterminate the "sub human" Jew in the aid of furthering evolution with the full support of Darwin's "science".
That is indeed "alleged". Specifically, it's alleged by two kinds of people: liars and their dupes. I shall do you the courtesy of supposing that you are the latter, and ask you why you didn't bother to find out if the allegation was true or not before repeating it.
I seem to remember something in the Bible about not bearing false witness.

This message is a reply to:
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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 34 of 114 (718288)
02-05-2014 11:37 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by Jaf
02-05-2014 8:05 PM


Re: Darwin was racist...
Most evolutionists seem to have serious issues with the character of God, why not the character of a man who belived half of us to be savages worthy of extinction?
Do you have any evidence for your fantasies about what Darwin thought?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by Jaf, posted 02-05-2014 8:05 PM Jaf has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 36 by Jaf, posted 02-05-2014 11:41 PM Dr Adequate has replied

Jaf
Member (Idle past 3694 days)
Posts: 150
Joined: 01-30-2014


Message 35 of 114 (718289)
02-05-2014 11:40 PM
Reply to: Message 30 by Coyote
02-05-2014 10:57 PM


Re: More "savage"
Then you will also know the fossil record and lack of any evolving inter species type fossils would have woken any thinking humanoid by now, but in imagine you are now progressing the illness by teaching it too. Oh dear.
Edited by Jaf, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 30 by Coyote, posted 02-05-2014 10:57 PM Coyote has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 39 by Coyote, posted 02-05-2014 11:43 PM Jaf has replied
 Message 41 by Dr Adequate, posted 02-05-2014 11:48 PM Jaf has replied
 Message 69 by RAZD, posted 02-06-2014 5:48 PM Jaf has replied

Jaf
Member (Idle past 3694 days)
Posts: 150
Joined: 01-30-2014


Message 36 of 114 (718290)
02-05-2014 11:41 PM
Reply to: Message 34 by Dr Adequate
02-05-2014 11:37 PM


Re: Darwin was racist...
I have his quotes.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by Dr Adequate, posted 02-05-2014 11:37 PM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 38 by Dr Adequate, posted 02-05-2014 11:42 PM Jaf has replied

Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(2)
Message 37 of 114 (718291)
02-05-2014 11:41 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by Jaf
02-05-2014 8:21 PM


Hitler allegedly was a big fan of Darwin's clearly racist views in that he was able to "scientifically supported" exterminate the "sub human" Jew in the aid of furthering evolution with the full support of Darwin's "science".
My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter.
In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was his fight against the Jewish poison. Today, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed his blood upon the Cross.
--- Adolf Hitler, My New Order
Perhaps you could find a quote with him saying something about Darwin. No?

This message is a reply to:
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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 38 of 114 (718292)
02-05-2014 11:42 PM
Reply to: Message 36 by Jaf
02-05-2014 11:41 PM


Re: Darwin was racist...
I have his quotes.
But those do not support your fantasies. That's why I asked.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 36 by Jaf, posted 02-05-2014 11:41 PM Jaf has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 55 by Jaf, posted 02-06-2014 3:24 AM Dr Adequate has replied

Coyote
Member (Idle past 2106 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 39 of 114 (718293)
02-05-2014 11:43 PM
Reply to: Message 35 by Jaf
02-05-2014 11:40 PM


Re: More "savage"
Then you will also know the fossil record and lack evolving inter species type fossils would have woken any thinking humanoid by now, but in imagine you are now progressing the illness by teaching it too. Oh dear.
Yes, I have taught evolution in the past.
But then, I have actually studied the evidence at some length--passing the Ph.D. exams in most universities is not just a formality.
To what relevant degree have you aspired, and what is your formal study in the field?

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers
If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle
If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1

This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by Jaf, posted 02-05-2014 11:40 PM Jaf has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 42 by Jaf, posted 02-05-2014 11:50 PM Coyote has replied

Jaf
Member (Idle past 3694 days)
Posts: 150
Joined: 01-30-2014


Message 40 of 114 (718294)
02-05-2014 11:44 PM
Reply to: Message 32 by New Cat's Eye
02-05-2014 11:13 PM


Yes it was very devious of him wasn't it? And yet now we have to listen to your lot telling us that the theory in no way ever meant humans evolved from apes right? Then maybe your pope aught to have kept infant analogies to himself.
Edited by Jaf, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by New Cat's Eye, posted 02-05-2014 11:13 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(1)
Message 41 of 114 (718295)
02-05-2014 11:48 PM
Reply to: Message 35 by Jaf
02-05-2014 11:40 PM


Re: More "savage"
Then you will also know the fossil record and lack of any evolving inter species type fossils would have woken any thinking humanoid by now
The crowning achievement of paleontology has been the demonstration, from the history of life, of the validity of the evolutionary theory [...] The fossil record contains many well-documented examples of the transition from one species into another, as well as the origin of new physical features. --- American Geological Institute.
Evolution is both a scientific fact and a scientific theory. Evolution is a fact in the sense that life has changed through time. In nature today, the characteristics of species are changing, and new species are arising. The fossil record is the primary factual evidence for evolution in times past, and evolution is well documented by further evidence from other scientific disciplines, including comparative anatomy, biogeography, genetics, molecular biology, and studies of viral and bacterial diseases. --- The Paleontological Society
The fossil record of vertebrates unequivocally supports the hypothesis that vertebrates have evolved through time, from their first records in the early Paleozoic Era about 500 million years ago to the great diversity we see in the world today. The hypothesis has been strengthened by so many independent observations of fossil sequences that it has come to be regarded as a confirmed fact, as certain as the drift of continents through time or the lawful operation of gravity. --- Society of Vertebrate Paleontology
This is too easy, are you by any chance related to a fish in a barrel?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by Jaf, posted 02-05-2014 11:40 PM Jaf has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 45 by Jaf, posted 02-05-2014 11:57 PM Dr Adequate has replied

Jaf
Member (Idle past 3694 days)
Posts: 150
Joined: 01-30-2014


Message 42 of 114 (718296)
02-05-2014 11:50 PM
Reply to: Message 39 by Coyote
02-05-2014 11:43 PM


Re: More "savage"
Twenty years study and proof to show beyond cavil that evolution theory is not science. All the known and observed evidence on the planets and the earth refutes evolution.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 39 by Coyote, posted 02-05-2014 11:43 PM Coyote has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 44 by Dr Adequate, posted 02-05-2014 11:56 PM Jaf has replied
 Message 47 by Coyote, posted 02-06-2014 12:00 AM Jaf has replied

New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 43 of 114 (718297)
02-05-2014 11:53 PM
Reply to: Message 40 by Jaf
02-05-2014 11:44 PM


Yes it was very devious of him wasn't it? And yet now we have to listen to your lot telling us that the theory in no way ever meant humans evolved from apes right?
No, humans are apes. But yes, we also evolved from other apes.
I'm not sure what you're asking?
Then maybe your pope aught to have kept infant analogies to himself.
I dunno what you're talking 'bout, how about we just keep this between you and me?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 40 by Jaf, posted 02-05-2014 11:44 PM Jaf has not replied

Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 44 of 114 (718298)
02-05-2014 11:56 PM
Reply to: Message 42 by Jaf
02-05-2014 11:50 PM


Re: More "savage"
Twenty years study and proof to show beyond cavil that evolution theory is not science. All the known and observed evidence on the planets and the earth refutes evolution.
And yet apparently this thread was the best you could come up with --- the thing you decided to lead with on joining this forum.
Well, dear Jaf, if this is your strongest suit, I think you overestimate yourself when you claim to have proof "beyond cavil". I think people will cavil. Some of them may go so far as to laugh.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 42 by Jaf, posted 02-05-2014 11:50 PM Jaf has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 46 by Jaf, posted 02-05-2014 11:58 PM Dr Adequate has replied

Jaf
Member (Idle past 3694 days)
Posts: 150
Joined: 01-30-2014


Message 45 of 114 (718299)
02-05-2014 11:57 PM
Reply to: Message 41 by Dr Adequate
02-05-2014 11:48 PM


Re: More "savage"
If it's easy, where are the interspecies fossils? If you want to know about water don't ask a fish, in this case you the fish and you have no idea about anything, be honest now.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 41 by Dr Adequate, posted 02-05-2014 11:48 PM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 48 by Dr Adequate, posted 02-06-2014 12:07 AM Jaf has replied

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