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Author | Topic: How can Biologists believe in the ToE? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Taz Member (Idle past 3319 days) Posts: 5069 From: Zerus Joined: |
riverrat writes:
See, this is what I don't understand about you and other creationists. According to you, there was a world wide flood that killed off everything except for Noah's family and the creatures that lived onboard his ark. There are around 2 million species known to us, and let's not forget the ones that haven't been discovered yet. Either Noah had 4 million animal on his ark for a whole year or he only had a few "kinds" and that these animal hyper-evolved into all the species we have today. So it's ok to believe in ToE, and creation? So, do you believe Noah had 4 million animal on his ark or not? If not, then surely you must believe in some kind of evolution to explain all the biodiversity we see today. Disclaimer: Occasionally, owing to the deficiency of the English language, I have used he/him/his meaning he or she/him or her/his or her in order to avoid awkwardness of style. He, him, and his are not intended as exclusively masculine pronouns. They may refer to either sex or to both sexes!
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Adminnemooseus Administrator Posts: 3976 Joined: |
Personally, I rather like the content of the message, but...
isn't it getting pretty far removed from this topics theme "How can Biologists believe in the ToE?"? Please do not reply to this message in this topic. If you must reply, please go to the "General..." topic, link below. Adminnemooseus New Members should start HERE to get an understanding of what makes great posts.
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riVeRraT Member (Idle past 444 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
See, this is what I don't understand about you and other creationists. According to you, there was a world wide flood that killed off everything except for Noah's family and the creatures that lived onboard his ark Just for clarity,I do not know if I am a "creationist" or not. I believe in God. I believe He did create the world. How He did it, is still up in the air. As far as the flood goes, I still believe it could have happened, and if it did, it was a God thing, not a science thing. I do not know enough about the ToE to believe in it or not.
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Nuggin Member (Idle past 2520 days) Posts: 2965 From: Los Angeles, CA USA Joined: |
I do not know enough about the ToE to believe in it or not. I hear ya. I'm the same way about gravity.
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iceage  Suspended Member (Idle past 5943 days) Posts: 1024 From: Pacific Northwest Joined: |
RiverRat writes: As far as the flood goes, I still believe it could have happened, and if it did, it was a God thing, not a science thing. If it was a God thing, then God manipulated the resultant evidence in such away that a honest and objective investigator would conclude otherwise. Now why would God ever do that? The proof that the world is old and a world wide flood did not happen a few thousands years ago is under your feet.
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riVeRraT Member (Idle past 444 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
I hear ya. I'm the same way about gravity. Comparing gravity to the ToE, is, well, idiotic.So tell me, just how does gravity work?
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riVeRraT Member (Idle past 444 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
Now why would God ever do that? So we can have faith.God knew Jesus was going to come, and that there would be a day when Him showing up here and there was not required, and that the temple is us now. The bible tells us to focus on the unseen, not the seen.
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Coragyps Member (Idle past 762 days) Posts: 5553 From: Snyder, Texas, USA Joined: |
So tell me, just how does gravity work? NOBODY knows.
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Nuggin Member (Idle past 2520 days) Posts: 2965 From: Los Angeles, CA USA Joined: |
Comparing gravity to the ToE, is, well, idiotic. Sigh. Gotta love it when you are making fun of someone for being stupid and they just don't get it. You said, you don't know enough about ToE (a subject about which A LOT is known) to believe in it. I said I felt the same way about gravity (something we know little about yet all believe in) as a means of showing you how ridiculous your statement was. Clearly, if you don't know enough about ToE to believe in it, you can't possible believe in something as out there as gravity. Edited by Nuggin, : No reason given.
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Modulous Member Posts: 7801 From: Manchester, UK Joined: |
I do not know enough about the ToE to believe in it or not.
Nobody believes in the ToE - scientists believe that it is the most complete and consistent scientific theory to explain how populations change over generations. One of the mechanisms is that chance variations occur that change populations over time. To not believe that this is one of the mechanisms of change would require one to believe that genetic science is completely wrong, that genes either don't mutate or that their mutation does not affect populations over generations. Naturally, knowing about all of the proposed mechanisms and how they work is beyond most people's interest levels. If you feel you'd like to learn more about them, there is a wealth of information out there for you. You may come to the conclusion that the theory is the best explanation for explaining changing populations though you may still disagree with just how much change is possible using the mechanisms described within. As I said earlier, that populations change is not under dispute from most creationists. That the mechanisms can account for most of that change is not usually in dispute from creationists (though it is by IDists - it's their sole argument in fact), the only real issue is how much change has occurred?
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
riVeRraT writes: The bible tells us to focus on the unseen, not the seen. No it doesn't. (That's one of the most exasperating things about talking to fundies.) It tells us not to ignore the unseen. Remember that when the Bible was written, bacteria were unseen. A lot of what was unseen has been seen because we look at the real world instead of keeping our heads in the clouds. Faith is not an excuse for blindness. Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation. Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC
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riVeRraT Member (Idle past 444 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
[qs]Clearly, if you don't know enough about ToE to believe in it, you can't possible believe in something as out there as gravity.[q/s]
My point is, that I wouldn't compare the two.
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riVeRraT Member (Idle past 444 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
Nobody believes in the ToE - scientists believe funny
Naturally, knowing about all of the proposed mechanisms and how they work is beyond most people's interest levels. If you feel you'd like to learn more about them, there is a wealth of information out there for you. You may come to the conclusion that the theory is the best explanation for explaining changing populations though you may still disagree with just how much change is possible using the mechanisms described within. Given what I have learned here, and all that I have read, I don't have a problem with it. We very could have been created to evolve. Makes no difference to me. Thanks for your answer.
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riVeRraT Member (Idle past 444 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
# Matthew 6:6
But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you. Matthew 6:5-7 (in Context) Matthew 6 (Whole Chapter) # Matthew 6:18 so that it will not be obvious to men that you are fasting, but only to your Father, who is unseen; and your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you. Matthew 6:17-19 (in Context) Matthew 6 (Whole Chapter) # 2 Corinthians 4:18 So we fix our eyes not on what is seen, but on what is unseen. For what is seen is temporary, but what is unseen is eternal. 2 Corinthians 4:17-18 (in Context) 2 Corinthians 4 (Whole Chapter) So you understand the context in which I meant that. I did not mean to imply, not to look at bacteria under a microscope, (which we can see.) I am pointing what should be imporatant in our walk of faith. That is God, and love, not creation science.
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ICANT Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: Member Rating: 1.6 |
Hi nator,
I did not forget about your question. I just did not have time to research it as You said I was not qualified to define kind. nator writes: "Kind" is not a scientific term. It is one that is used only by Creationists. If there actually was a definition, you would have provided it by now. There is no definion. Careful with absolutes like there is no definion, if you meant definition. Funk & Wagnalls Standard Desk Dictionary (1975)
kind n. 1. A class or grouping; type. 2. The distinguishing character of something: They differ in kind. I take that to mean that humans are a kind, dogs are a kind, cats are a kind, rats are a kind, birds are a kind, fish are a kind, monkeys are a kind, baboons are a kind, apes are a kind horses are a kind, cows are a kind, hogs are a kind, snakes are a kind, etc. Enjoy, "John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
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