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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1470 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Fake polls, fake news | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1470 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Right, smack dab in the middle. Which does surprise me somewhat since even I think of myself as identifiably on the right. But the reason I brought it up was that RAZD said I must be reading his chart from the point of view of the VERY far right and I don't think that's true. My midline score at least supports my idea that it's more likely that "Mainstream" has gone Leftist (and that EvC is SO far Left it looks neutral to y'all).
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1470 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Tell me Faith, is there any news source or internet source too far to the right for you? I don't know. Run one by me. But what I suspect is that "right" is defined by the left in your thinking and I don't accept most of those definitions as representing anything I believe. You go on in your post to put leftist spin on everything else too. I can see how it would be very difficult to recognize leftist fake news when you simply accept it all as fact.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1470 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
I see I can't answer the rest of your post because I didn't hear the speech. Comments I've heard today -- not a lot of that even -- are quite positive about it, and the NYT account is even pretty positive for them.
I will mention one of the biggest gripes I have about media coverage these days, the word "undocumented" for illegal aliens, and leaving off the term "illegal" from "immigrants." That's deep-dyed fake news IMO. Speaking of illegal immigration, I have nothing against developing a pathway to legality for those who deserve it. Maybe Trump didn't bring it up in the speech because he hasn't had time to think it through.
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Phat Member Posts: 18333 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0
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Faith writes: I guess our next question is how to define the standard for who deserves it and who does not. It makes sense not to let everyone in, but how can we fairly discriminate? Speaking of illegal immigration, I have nothing against developing a pathway to legality for those who deserve it. Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith "as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler
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Rrhain Member Posts: 6351 From: San Diego, CA, USA Joined: |
Faith responds to me:
quote: How about video of him actually saying it in full and complete context rather than going off the statement of a questionable source such as the one you provided? You did notice that Modulous posted the videos of him making the statement. I notice you still can't even bring yourself to use his name. Do you even know what it is? Do you know the name of the person you're talking about? I notice you didn't respond to Modulous...even though my post came after...quite literally the post directly after his. I have no doubt as to why you decided to respond to me rather than to him: Your source lied to you and you know it and thus you are actively avoiding any evidence that would contradict you. You still haven't answered my question. Fourth time: If Ronald Reagan said that the country belongs to the young, would you interpret that to mean Reagan was saying everybody over the age of 21 should be killed a la Logan's Run? That is not a rhetorical question, Faith. I really want to know your answer to it.Rrhain Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time. Minds are like parachutes. Just because you've lost yours doesn't mean you can use mine.
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Rrhain Member Posts: 6351 From: San Diego, CA, USA Joined:
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Percy writes:
quote:quote:This is a clearly biased paragraph that goes well beyond factual reporting to make comparisons with the previous president who faced far more urgent economic problems than those faced today and so had to move rapidly. Your analysis is only partially true and therefore misleading. This is partly because the original article is being misleading about the state of Congress at the time: "Democratic Congress" is only partially accurate. Indeed, both the House and the Senate were majority-Democrat at the time, but the Senate Republicans had established an obstructionist policy that was literally declared on the day of Obama's inauguration: Thus, any action was going to require a busting of Republican filibusters as the Democrats did not have a filibuster-proof majority in the Senate until the summer (Al Franken)...and then were only able to keep it for a few months (Ted Kennedy). And while the economic policies at the time were partially managed by Bush and inherited by Obama who implemented them (along with his own actions), you are missing the point: Obama's cabinet and senior staff were on board whereas Trump still can't get his cabinet and staff together. And you are also neglecting the fact that the Republicans in general and Trump in particular have declared that repeal of the Affordable Care Act is the most important thing the country has ever seen: Ben Carson, put forward to be head of HUD, called Obamacare the worst thing "since slavery." Now that both houses of Congress are in Republican hands, surely they should be able to do what they were unable to do the previous 50+ times when Obama was in the White House. So no, this paragraph isn't really biased. It is a bit incomplete, but its basic premise is sound.
quote:quote:This seems an unnecessary jab at a time when the president has just taken a very positive step toward a more traditional and presidential style. BWAHAHAHAHA! That's rich, Percy. That's just precious. The fact that Trump did not take off his shoe and pound the podium does not mean he "has just taken a very positive step toward a more traditional and presidential style." On the contrary, his speech was just a rewarmed campaign speech that he didn't write and merely read. You can see this in his treatment of Carryn Owens and also of Ryan Owens: Notice that he was following the script regarding his address of Carryn... ...and then milked the applause... ...and then went off script to make it all about him by commenting about the "record" applause. It's all about ratings and being number one and the "best." As soon as he goes off script, he returns to his old habits of being the con man he is known for being. How is that "presidential"? And as for Ryan, have you forgotten that he still cannot take responsibility for the mission that led to his death? "THEY [meaning the generals] lost Ryan." Not "we." Reagan took responsibility for his failed operations in Beirut. Bush I, Clinton, Bush II, Obama, they all took responsibility. Trump can't do it. How is that "presidential"? Did you forget that he said he was going to put out a hit list for immigrants? You didn't really think that his "Victims of Immigrant Crime Engagement office" was anything less than a dog whistle to those who already think that immigrants are literally coming for them to kill them in the night (ahem....Faith....) How is that "presidential"? Oh...and the official count: 51 lies in 61 minutes. How is that "presidential"? As a White House official put it, it was "nationalism with an indoor voice." Do not confuse the fact that he wasn't standing in front of a bunch of screaming fans at a rally while wearing a ridiculous red hat with "traditional and presidential."Rrhain Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time. Minds are like parachutes. Just because you've lost yours doesn't mean you can use mine.
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Rrhain Member Posts: 6351 From: San Diego, CA, USA Joined: |
Faith writes:
quote: Such as? You are so often wrong about these "facts you happen to know about," that we cannot take your word for it. For example, you were wrong about the statement of the ex-prime minister of Sweden (you still don't know his name, do you?) Examples, Faith. You need to learn to be specific.
quote: As Miss Manners put it: Outrageous behaviour requires an outrageous response. When you catch someone taking a dump in the punch bowl, they are not the aggrieved party when it gets pointed out. The headline is not merely, "Disturbance at Gathering." Your definition of "pejorative language" seems to be simply accurate descriptions that you don't like because they reveal the monstrosity of your position.
quote: It's called "analysis," Faith, and it is a necessary part of journalism. Reportage is more than mere stenography. It is not enough to simply say, for example, that the Republicans are putting forward a new healthcare system. It is not "focusing on somebody's negative opinion" to point out that the new system will result in millions of people losing their health insurance compared to what exists now and that there will be no system to control costs.Rrhain Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time. Minds are like parachutes. Just because you've lost yours doesn't mean you can use mine.
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Rrhain Member Posts: 6351 From: San Diego, CA, USA Joined:
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Faith writes:
quote: His first national security advisor forced to resign in less than a month, his replacement tells him to take the job and shove it, his nominees for both Secretary of the Army and Secretary of the Navy withdraw, his Education Secretary had to be confirmed by the Vice President, and his nominee for Secretary of Labor failed. His administration has more leaks than a sieve...to the point that Spicer held a meeting about what they were going to do to stop the leaks...which was promptly leaked. Officials at the State Department and CIA resign. Exactly what is your definition of "tumultuous," Faith, and how is it the "leftist reaction" that causes it?
quote: Names or it didn't happen, Faith. Hint: Exactly how many death threats did Obama have? Why was his transition so much more smooth considering that he had so much more antagonism against him personally?
quote: Exactly how is not discussing it with the relevant parties, not talking over the policy with any of the other branches of government or departments who would have to carry it out, and the outright defiance of court orders "not chaotic"? Exactly what is your definition of "chaotic"?
quote: Here's a hint, Faith: There are more people in the world than his supporters. That you are happy with the chaos doesn't mean it isn't chaos. When the people and departments who have the task of carrying out the policies of the administration are unaware of what those policies are, that is what is known as "chaotic." When every court looks at it and blocks it, that is what is known as "tumultuous." Those words do not mean what you think they mean.
quote: You mean you don't know? The order is not merely to "deport criminals." Instead, it is to deport anybody "charged." Note, that doesn't mean convicted. All it takes is for a cop to not like the color of your skin, manufacture a charge, and suddenly you're being deported for a crime you didn't actually commit. On top of that, you're ignoring that the current policy is already to deport criminals. It's why more people have been deported under Obama than under any other administration. So exactly why did Trump need to bother?
quote: You do realize that legal immigrants were deported after the fiasco with his Muslim ban, yes? At least 60 were coerced into giving up their visas and green cards.
The agents "lied to immigrants arriving after the Executive Order was signed, falsely telling them that if they did not sign a relinquishment of their legal rights, they would be formally ordered removed from the United States, which would bring legal consequences including a five-year bar for reentry to the United States," the lawsuit claims. Their legal immigrant status was subsequently "revoked without due process of law," according to the lawsuit. That you don't think this is the necessary result of Trump's policy indicates you have a failure of intelligence to the point of dementia or is a designed attempt to pretend there is no threat.
quote: If you don't know, what makes you think you have anything of any value to say on the subject?
quote: Because everything that he has said about NATO (including withdrawing from it) has been horrendous and foolish. Why should now be any different considering that he has surrounded himself with advisers that counseled him to promote the horrendous and foolish statements?
quote: There's that Grand Conspiracy to Suppress the Truth (C) again. I take it Interpol is in on it, too, right? Because they don't agree with you.
quote: Lies are "the truth"? What a strange definition you have of "truth." It does not mean what you think it means.
quote: If you don't know, what makes you think you have anything of any value to say on the subject? Here are a few questions you should consider: When is this going to happen? The talk is about "repeal now, replace later." OK...so you're a health insurer: What does that mean? All those people who have bought your policies over the past few years: What happens to them? And what is this replacement? After all, you want to keep those people as customers. How are you going to do that if you have no idea how we're going to transition from the ACA to whatever is coming next (which has yet to be defined)? Will pre-existing conditions still be covered? What about the people in the expanded Medicaid program? What about the drug program? This is the chaos that has been introduced into the health care market. Nobody knows what is going on. Once again, Faith, you prove that you literally don't have a clue what you're talking about. You just know that anybody who disagrees with you must be evil. The Grand Conspiracy continues.Rrhain Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time. Minds are like parachutes. Just because you've lost yours doesn't mean you can use mine.
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JonF Member (Idle past 193 days) Posts: 6174 Joined:
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You mean you don't know? The order is not merely to "deport criminals." Instead, it is to deport anybody "charged." It's worse than that. Enforcement of the Immigration Laws to Serve the National Interest :
quote: {emphasis added} Edited by JonF, : No reason given.
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Percy Member Posts: 22489 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.0 |
Rrhain writes: You mean you don't know? The order is not merely to "deport criminals." Instead, it is to deport anybody "charged." It's important to note that the original order applied to everyone from those seven countries, including those with green cards. --Percy
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1470 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
It's not that hard to figure out who deserves it, Phat, it would be anyone who has been living and working without committing any criminal offenses, or without being describable by the paragraph in Message 474. For starters anyway. Maybe other criteria should also be considered.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1470 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Trump's statement during the campaign about deporting illegal aliens who have committed criminal offenses, which is what I was talking about, is a separate thing from the "immigration ban" that put a delay on allowing Syrian refugees, or people from those seven nations, into the country.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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jar Member (Idle past 420 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined:
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Faith writes: It's not that hard to figure out who deserves it, Phat, it would be anyone who has been living and working without committing any criminal offenses, or without being describable by the paragraph in Message 474. For starters anyway. Maybe other criteria should also be considered. Yet those are exactly the people being rounded up and deported; people who have been living in the US and contributing to the US and paying taxes and not committing criminal offenses.
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Percy Member Posts: 22489 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.0 |
Faith writes: Oh I'm not particularly bothered by the word "tumultuous" but blaming on him what is really media-generated tumult,... The entire media, including the outlets you like, reported on these things. The tumult in the Trump administration is caused by Trump himself. Reporting events is a result of the events, not a cause of them. You've got it backwards.
I'm not up to reading your whole post right now I'm afraid so the above is just my initial reaction. Gee, too bad, you missed the portions I thought biased. --Percy
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1470 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
As I understand it, some deportations are continuing from Obama's administration that have nothing to do with Trump's plan. We haven't even heard anything about Trump's plan yet have we? All I was talking about was what he said during the campaign.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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