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Author | Topic: Falsifying a young Universe. (re: Supernova 1987A) | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18338 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
starman writes: Let me see if I properly understand you. You say to science that it really does not understand the measurement of time in distant stars and galaxies, right? I think Jesus will show us one day, and the nobel nonsense will be extinct. As a believer, do you think that science has been deceived or misled in some way? Do you believe that Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever? How should a believer approach science? Is it wise or even possible to reject the scientific method as now presented?Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith
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jar Member (Idle past 421 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Phat writes: Do you believe that Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever? There you go making meaningless statements again. Since at one time Jesus may have been alive and since at one time it is claimed Jesus was dead and since at one time it is asserted that Jesus ascended into heaven then the Bible says Jesus is NOT the same yesterday, today, and forever.
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1432 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined:
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How should a believer approach science? ... With profound curiosity and an open mind: remember, if god/s created the universe then the evidence of that creation lies in what we can parse out on how it was structured, assembled and implemented.
... Is it wise or even possible to reject the scientific method as now presented? It is the best method humans have yet devised for parsing out how things work, how it is structured. For instance there are several versions of all the various religious texts ... what among them is consistent? what among them is different and then how can we test one against another? What is your paradigm for sorting truth from fiction?
starman writes: I think Jesus will show us one day, and the nobel nonsense will be extinct. Do you believe that Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever? I would be surprised if modern Christians would recognize or accept him. Middle eastern immigrant? Enjoyby our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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jar Member (Idle past 421 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined:
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RAZD writes: I would be surprised if modern Christians would recognize or accept him. Middle eastern immigrant? At best he would be just another Rag-Head but most likely proof of the vast Jewish Conspiracy. Remember, Jesus was always a Jew, never a Christian.
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Stile Member Posts: 4295 From: Ontario, Canada Joined:
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starman writes: You cannot compare computers to the far past nature on earth, or to unknown deep space. Irrelevant. Well, I can, actually. I just don't think you understand why. So I'll move on to something different: Let's talk about the difference between Science beliefs and Religious beliefs. Here "Science beliefs" are the ideas of Science using the scientific method.While "Religious beliefs" are the ideas of Religion using the religious fundamental ideas. Can beliefs change?There is no such thing as a Scientific belief that cannot change. Science would throw away any Theory, any Law, any fundamental concept, any idea at all that can be shown to be wrong and replaced with something that is better. Fundamental Religious beliefs, however, cannot change. If they change, then you no longer believe in the religion.You cannot have a Christian that does not believe in Christ or God. You cannot have a Muslim that does not believe in Allah. There are always fundamental beliefs in religion that are tied to that religion, and if you don't accept them... you are no longer part of that religion. What does this mean for being right?Changeable beliefs are either right, or if wrong they can be changed to be right anyway. Unchangeable beliefs are either right, or wrong. All of Science's beliefs are changeable. Every. Single. One.If Science is ever wrong about anything, it's only temporary until it makes progress, changes the belief, and gets back to being right again. Some of Religion's beliefs are unchangeable. At least a few, sometimes many.If an unchangeable Religious belief is ever wrong, it's wrong forever. What's the best case scenario?The best Religion can ever do, is hope to tie Science about being right. The best Science can ever do, is be right regardless of what Religion thinks. What's the worst case scenario?The worst Religion can ever do, is be wrong forever. The worst Science can ever do, is tie Religion about being right. Not all beliefs are the same.
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Taq Member Posts: 10077 Joined: Member Rating: 5.1 |
starman writes: You can't see time or that it exists the same as here. Yes, you can. That is exactly what SN1987a showed us.
You only assumed a bunch of things and believed. They are the same assumptions you use when crossing the street.
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starman Inactive Member |
I would suggest approaching so called sciences regarding origins the same way we approach fables and gods.
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starman Inactive Member |
How did the SN show us time was the same?
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starman Inactive Member |
No. You cannot compare what we see happening today to the far future or past. Not at all. To do so is merely to believe that the laws of today will or did apply.
As for the religion of science and the belief set it espouses, you need more than beliefs. Sorry.
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starman Inactive Member |
I can be the same even if I vacation in Rome. We do not need to freeze frame and stop living to be the same. God is alive and moving. He does stuff.
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jar Member (Idle past 421 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
But that is NOT what the Bible says.
Once again, we have the evidence (and we have actually read the Bible) and so we win.
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starman Inactive Member |
Yes it is anyone can look at the first verse of chapter 2 and see it was over and done in verse 1.
You have no evidence of your oft touted same nature i the past. You lose totally. Edited by starman, : No reason given.
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jar Member (Idle past 421 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
starman writes: Yes it is anyone can look at the first verse of chapter 2 and see it was over and done in verse 1. Only the ignorant would think that. Remember, the Bible is a fairly new human creation. Everything in it started out as separate writings and none of the authors of any of it considered trying to smush all the different stories together as though it were one book. At best, a Bible is an anthology of anthologies. But your ignorance does not change the Fact that Genesis 1 was written long, long after Genesis 2&3 and in a different culture and ethos.
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Stile Member Posts: 4295 From: Ontario, Canada Joined: |
No. You cannot compare what we see happening today to the far future or past. Not at all. Sure you can. It's pretty easy.I bet you could if you really tried to focus your mind. Just take a breath and try to relax a bit first, then give it a try. I believe in you. To do so is merely to believe that the laws of today will or did apply. Exactly. And, as we all know, this leads to a wonderful win-win scenario for progress through science.Onward and upward, science can't lose! As for the religion of science and the belief set it espouses, you need more than beliefs. Sorry. For sure. This is why we have this:
What's the best case scenario?The best Religion can ever do, is hope to tie Science about being right. The best Science can ever do, is be right regardless of what Religion thinks. What's the worst case scenario?The worst Religion can ever do, is be wrong forever. The worst Science can ever do, is tie Religion about being right. That doesn't even use the word belief. It's based on the processes and ability to make progress.
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starman Inactive Member |
You admit all you do is believe the forces and laws were the same. You are not here to debate then I guess.
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