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Author | Topic: Creationism in Schools | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
TrueCreation Inactive Member |
"Dan 4:10-11 - These are the visions I saw while lying - Bible Gateway"
Daniel 4 10 As to the visions of my head on my bed, I was looking, and lo, a tree in the midst of the earth, and its height [is] great: 11 become great hath the tree, yea, strong, and its height doth reach to the heavens, and its vision to the end of the whole land; --It says 'end of the whole land', not world, Now where was he standing? Who knows, it was a vision, not an event in the first place. "Mat 4:8 - Again, the devil took him to a very - Bible Gateway"--See last post. "1 chr 16:30 - Tremble before him, all the earth! The - Bible Gateway"--Moved out of where? Too vague to be evident of the argument in either direction. 30 Be pained before Him, all the earth:31 Also, established is the world, It is not moved! The heavens rejoice, and the earth is glad, And they say among nations: Jehovah hath reigned. "Psa 93:1 - The LORD reigns, he is robed in - Bible Gateway"--Likewize. --Now obviously you would not consider these ones would you? : YLT-Psalm 77:18 The voice of Thy thunder [is] in the spheres, Lightnings have lightened the world, The earth hath trembled, yea, it shaketh. 21st Century NKJV-Amos 9:6 Amos 9 Amos 9:5-7 It is He that buildeth His spheres in the heaven, and hath founded His troop on the earth. He that calleth for the waters of the sea and poureth them out upon the face of the earth--the LORD is His name. --From an earlier post of mine:
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joz Inactive Member |
quote: I hate to mention this bud but mention of spheres in a cosmological context has connotations of the ptolmaic model (from which we get the term music of the spheres)....
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LudvanB Inactive Member |
quote:
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quicksink Inactive Member |
The issue is cut and dry. Creationism depends on the existence of god, and His existence is untestable. therefore, one must have faith in his existence.
If creationism is a faith-held belief, it is religious, and furthermore unscientific. this is important because a) it is unconstitutional to teach religious faiths and beliefs in a literal sensein public institutions and b) because creationism is based on faith and not science, it cannot be taught as such. What do you tell the Muslim who claims the Qu'ran is historically accurate and the Bible is false? Do you tell him that America is Christian, and if you don't like that, tough? no if this Muclim is a law-abiding, tax-paying citizen, he is entitled to the same rights as any white historian. He is also considered a legal American, a Muslim American I might add. To teach creationism as fact in public institutions would define America/americans as Christian... what do you say to that Muslim American now? And the Jew... And the Chinese, Korean, Atheist, African, etc, etc, etc. The US and its citizens are not defined by the religion they practice. That is layed down in the constitution. Any American is entitled to his right to freeely practice his or her relgion. ANY AMERICAN... It is quite simple, or at least to the rational person...
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quicksink Inactive Member |
I simply don't see how someone could argue that a religion should be taught in a public school as fact... it is really beyond me...
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quicksink Inactive Member |
quote: LOL!!! You are not entitled to the right to practice your religious beliefs in public institutions. you can do so in a church or private school, but not in a public school... evolution is not taught because people believe in it... it is taught because anyone of any faith can believe in it... if you choose not to... tough... but don't make children (like me) have to learn your stiffling and faith-held beliefs in sdience... keep religion where it belongs- chruch...
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quicksink Inactive Member |
quote: if evolution is disproved, then science will find a new theory... until then, we're gonna teach evolution... as for interpreting the constitution, well, there is no room for interpreting the first amendment, per se. "or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;" I suppose you were refering to this statement... this is not open to interpretation... it means quite plainly that the government may not restrict the PRIVATE practice of religion, but may restrict religious groups from teaching religious faiths in PUBLIC institutions. put simply, religious groups are NOT free to practice their religions in publicly funded institutions. sing and pray your heart away, but do so in a proper and private institution.
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doctrbill Member (Idle past 2792 days) Posts: 1174 From: Eugene, Oregon, USA Joined: |
quote: At Psalm 77:18 the KJV says "heaven" for the Hebrew GALGAL, which modern versions give as "whirlwind" (LB, ML, RSV, NIV, NKJV);Jerusalem Bible says, "as it rolled". GALGAL is otherwise translated "wheel" and "rolling thing". The poetic use of this imagery continues in our expression - "rolling thunder." At Amos 9:6, KJV says, "stories" from the Hebrew MAALAH which the KJV most often translates as "degrees", "steps", or "stairs". Modern versions render it -"vaults" (Modern Language Bible); "upper stories" (Living Bible); "upper chambers" (Revised Standard Version); "high dwelling place" (Jerusalem Bible); "lofty place" (New International Version). The NKJV (not to be confused with the 21st Century NKJV), says, "He who builds His layers in the sky, and has founded His strata in the earth ..." This, I think, is the best translation to date. Hope this helps to clarify the unlikely use of the word "spheres" in these contexts. ------------------Bachelor of Arts - Loma Linda University Major - Biology; Minor - Religion Anatomy and Physiology - LLU School of Medicine Embryology - La Sierra University Biblical languages - Pacific Union College Bible doctrines - Walla Walla College
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gene90 Member (Idle past 3850 days) Posts: 1610 Joined: |
From planets to galaxies, eh?
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TrueCreation Inactive Member |
"Hope this helps to clarify the unlikely use of the word "spheres" in these contexts."
--Thanx, yes it was informitive to me ------------------
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Theo Inactive Junior Member |
Please see my posts (#'s 49 & 65)in the other topic 'Separation of Church & State Quesiton 2,' wherein I cite Justice Rehnquists expostion on the issue wherein he demonstrates that historically it is clear that christianity can be practiced in and on publically funded property.
As well before anyone starts quibbling about old testament wording claiming ignorantly as LudvanB did that 'thats what it says' a lesson in exegesis is necessary. 1)The old testament was written in Hebrew thousands of years ago and 2)you have to take into account the audience of the time. When done so one finds that it is proper to translate the Hebrew word as sphere's and that the biblical text predates Ptolemic views. This is another example of strawmen fallacies committed by those committed to their particular world view instead of real inquiry. They didn't examine both sides and the evidence of each before stating conclusions. Very bad scholarship indeed ------------------theo
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TrueCreation Inactive Member |
"As well before anyone starts quibbling about old testament wording claiming ignorantly as LudvanB did that 'thats what it says' a lesson in exegesis is necessary. 1)The old testament was written in Hebrew thousands of years ago and 2)you have to take into account the audience of the time. When done so one finds that it is proper to translate the Hebrew word as sphere's and that the biblical text predates Ptolemic views. This is another example of strawmen fallacies committed by those committed to their particular world view instead of real inquiry. They didn't examine both sides and the evidence of each before stating conclusions. Very bad scholarship indeed"
--I find many of the arguments, particularely the mention of the 'circle of the earth', as proposed by some, great evidence of a spherical earth. As this circle of the earth would be non-existant if the earth were not spherical. ------------------
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LudvanB Inactive Member |
quote: even if the word could be translated in sphere,which its not but let say for the sake of argument that it can...that would simply mean a contradiction,since there exists no mountain where you can climb to see all the scatered kingdoms around a sphere...and there were kingdoms on other continents at the time of Jesus...the Chinese,the africans,the Aztech,the Mayans...they would all have had to be included in the "all the Kingdoms of the world" thats supposadly could be seen from this mountain top.
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gene90 Member (Idle past 3850 days) Posts: 1610 Joined: |
[QUOTE][b]I find many of the arguments, particularely the mention of the 'circle of the earth', as proposed by some, great evidence of a spherical earth. As this circle of the earth would be non-existant if the earth were not spherical.[/QUOTE]
[/b] Circles are flat. Theo, if current translations of the OT are so ambiguous and may not mean the same in English as they did in Hebrew how can you have faith in the literal interpretation of Genesis? To claim that a passage that, in English, apparently implies that the Earth is flat is either mistranslated or simplified for a primitive audience, and then claim that several chapters of Genesis are literally correct in their current form is inconsistent. [This message has been edited by gene90, 03-02-2002]
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TrueCreation Inactive Member |
"Circles are flat."
--Not when seen in this light: ------------------ [This message has been edited by TrueCreation, 03-02-2002]
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