Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total)
1 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,817 Year: 3,074/9,624 Month: 919/1,588 Week: 102/223 Day: 0/13 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   What led you to God?
macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3928 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 16 of 300 (267713)
12-11-2005 3:53 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by joshua221
12-10-2005 3:28 AM


i was raised in the presbyterian church, being half scottish. i confessed my lord at three... the same year i learned to read. i have also been very astute to nature. i am always very aware of my surroundings (i have an over-active nervous system). i went to church because i loved to sing. i joined the church when i was 12 (the earliest they allowed). i was never really a crazed religious type though i was reasonably devout. i never was able to keep a quiet time; i almost never went to sunday school.
god was always very quiet, private, personal... especially after my father died.
my mother always told me i had an old soul. and yet i've always been overwhelmed with hope and joy and naivete. (sometimes the hope feels oppressive.) i deman a great deal of my surroundings, both living and non. i demand truth; i demand honesty; i demand honor. when i was in middle school and the youth group was more cruel to me than my public school, i left. i almost completely quit going to church. i didn't start again until freshman year of college when going to church meant a family and a meal outside of dorm life. church was always much more about fellowship for me. i can get knowledge on a personal basis either from the book or from the world or from someone i trust. i don't divine about the sermon and think 'oh that's meant just for me.' sometimes i get an urge to go and i will and i get something out of it... but i haven't been since last easter. arach went with me to the church i went to for undergrad. they had a visiting pastor and he did a sermon on thomas. now. thomas has always been my favorite. he demanded truth and honesty, and honor. he also demanded proof. jesus gave this to him without being asked. this to me shows that those with scientific minds have a place in the father's arms. the pastor all but called thomas an idiot and a sinner for demanding so much of jesus.
i never looked back.
lately i haven't had the time or the energy or the opportunity to spend much time in nature. there isn't much in metro south florida. nature or time. the more time i'm away from clear, uninhibited thought sustained by blessed wind and life the more i die inside.
i'm probably not really a christian anymore. i don't even know if i'm more than an agnostic, really. though, for me, that would be a dishonest position. i'm very tired because of the constant rush that is life in this world. i hope that a life in academia will give me something different. my breath depends on it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by joshua221, posted 12-10-2005 3:28 AM joshua221 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 25 by arachnophilia, posted 12-12-2005 1:36 AM macaroniandcheese has not replied

coffee_addict
Member (Idle past 477 days)
Posts: 3645
From: Indianapolis, IN
Joined: 03-29-2004


Message 17 of 300 (267813)
12-11-2005 3:56 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by joshua221
12-10-2005 4:53 PM


angry teen writes:
I can see that these lives were not in vain, and they will find paradise.
Speaking someone that has lived through a period of extreme poverty, you can trust me when I say those people don't give a rat's ass that they will find paradise in the afterlife. Hunger and the humiliation of powerlessness are very powerful things.
Here is what I suggest you do. Don't eat anything except for a small bowl of white rice and salt (to give it a little flavor) per day for a year or two. If you still feel hungry, go to sleep. It helps with the hunger. When you see more priviledged people dropping food on the ground, pick it up and eat it.
Then, come back and tell us if you still think those people are all jolly and happy about finding paradise in the afterlife.
Hang on a second, according to your holy book, some of those people that live in extreme poverty are going to hell anyway, since they never "knew" christ. Huh, hell during life and hell in the afterlife. Go figure.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by joshua221, posted 12-10-2005 4:53 PM joshua221 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 21 by riVeRraT, posted 12-11-2005 7:48 PM coffee_addict has not replied

Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 18 of 300 (267832)
12-11-2005 4:57 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by joshua221
12-10-2005 5:16 PM


To: Sheep. RE: "And the bleat goes on..."
Brian writes:
Answer these please:
Is life not beautiful without there being a god?
Phat writes:
Personally, I do not know life without God any more, so I can only speculate: Life is still a blessing for those who have never met God. God desires that no one perish! The kid in Africa is starving because humans won't share---not because God did not provide enough!
How good is it to believe in a messiah?
Phat writes:
Just out of curiousity, why do you ask, Brian? Do you already have an answer for this question?
What is it you wish to be saved from?
Phat writes:
I never give it much thought. Im just glad to know God and it is why I share my beliefs and feelings with everyone!
I had to give Brian an honest answer!
PORTEUS, its just like sharing music! You love to give the crowd that special vibe!

Nature is an infinite sphere of which the center is everywhere and the circumference nowhere.
Pensées (1670)
We arrive at truth, not by reason only, but also by the heart.
Pensées (1670)
Heb 4:12-13-- For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart. Nothing in all creation is hidden from God's sight Everything is uncovered and laid bare before the eyes of him to whom we must give account.
Holy Spirit--speaking through the Apostle Paul

This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by joshua221, posted 12-10-2005 5:16 PM joshua221 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 19 by ringo, posted 12-11-2005 5:35 PM Phat has replied

ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 19 of 300 (267844)
12-11-2005 5:35 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by Phat
12-11-2005 4:57 PM


Phat writes:
... I do not know life without God any more, so I can only speculate....
I'm curious about your phraseology: What do you mean by, "I do not know life without God any more"?
Was there ever a time when you didn't know life without God? If there was, why can't you remember what it was like? Why can't you answer Brian's question in the form: Was life not beautiful without there being a God?
For an "honest answer" to Brian's question, I'm giving you a D-minus.

People who think they have all the answers usually don't understand the questions.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by Phat, posted 12-11-2005 4:57 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 23 by Phat, posted 12-12-2005 12:07 AM ringo has replied

riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 416 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 20 of 300 (267875)
12-11-2005 7:21 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by Brian
12-10-2005 1:46 PM


Re: La La Land again?
I now porteus handled your responses well, but I must add my own.
I find your reply full of anger.
Ah, a perfect setting for yet another Christian self-fulfilling prophecy? Aren’t you bored inventing reasons to believe in God?
Luke 19:40
"I tell you," he replied, "if they keep quiet, the stones will cry out."
All of creation cries out the Lord to me, I cannot invent anything.
Did you spare a thought for the thousands of tribal lands that have been soaked in blood by the attempted genocide of the natives by well-meaning Christians?
Are they Christians?
Is it what comes out of our mouth, or what comes out of our hearts?
and times when life was a little more simple.
In what way was life more simple?
I agree.
You don’t seem to realise how self deluding this sounds. You are entering all these situations with deeply entrenched preconceptions; of course you are going to think God is wonderful if you allocate every good feeling that you have to the fluffy little Jesus character. Next time you see pictures in the media of the thousands of starving children who die every day across the world, when you see people dying because they don’t have a few dollars to pay for simple health care, or you see babies born with terrible medical conditions that only allow them to live for a few painful days, do you still get that wonderful spiritual feeling that lovely Jesus is in control. Yes, God is such a wonderful entity when we ignore His incompetence.
If there are 2 biullion Christians in the world, then why are there 1 billion starving people?
Does this mean there is no God?
We only have your word that your head is on straight, this sounds a very subjective claim.
Well judging him like that makes you seem like your head is on straight, and why should we believe you?
That depends, I believe you can do, or get anything you want, if you are prepared to work and wait for it.
A true gift from God, I believe.
Well, you believe you have found a purpose and a path now, so why should it be any different? People of a certain nature can delude themselves into thinking anything is true, some people are more open to suggestion and less inquisitive than others. We have a TV show on here right now entitled “Space Cadets” and the contestants are being tricked into thinking that four of them are going to be the first civilian space tourists. The contestants have been chosen because they are open to suggestion and extremely gullible, hey are all also extremely stupid. They have been told that they are in Russia, and they have gone through a lot of different training exercises, truth is, they are still in England and the vast majority of the information in the lectures they have had is untrue. If one contestant twigs to the fact that they are being conned then the show is over. Now these contestants are as thick as two short planks, they have been told that the city of Minsk was named after a monkey cosmonaut called Minsky, and not one of them twigged! To me, these contestants are identical to many Christians, open to suggestion, extremely gullible, and thick as two short planks. So, I am sure you would still convince yourself that there is a god, regardless of your geographical location.
The difference between Christian, or more correctly, knowing the Lord, is that once you learn the truth you are set free.
John 8:32
Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free."
What do you think John meant by that? Was he just blabbering words?
The people in that TV show, in the end will not be set free. Or will they ever be set free if they continue in the deception.
If anything, that story shows why you should seek God, and not that God is a deception. The fact that there is so much deception in the world, is evidence towards a truth, and that one could exist.
Do you know of any incidents where Christ has made Himself known to someone who hadn’t heard of Him before? Answer that and you will have answered your own question.
Hellen Keller.
Also others in Africa, have come to know the Lord through angels, without having any knowledge of Christ.
I asked the same question you have. Someone once told me, that everyone will have a chance to know Christ. I don't know if I believe it, but I am starting to wonder, as I learn more about the world. I don't know for sure, but really I only concern myself when it comes to a statement like that. Have I had a chance to know Christ?
Millions, probably billions, of children have been brainwashed by well-meaning Christians. They pollute the young brain with their fantasies before the child has entered the abstract thinking stage of their development. Fortunately, a lot of these people become free thinkers as they mature, unfortunately, far too many people are happy to remain in this state of blissful, wilful ignorance.
Proving that people will come to know the Lord in his timing, not some church.
How do you know you would believe in Christ if you were brought up in an African village? That is if you can find an African village that hasn’t been polluted by Christianity.
WE don't know for sure, only God knows, so I agree with you, but obviously God has choosen him, so he therefor choses to follow. If God is going to choose you, it doesn't matter where you live.
How do you ever hope to find the Truth if you are only prepared to continue living this very narrow minded existence?
I believe he has found the truth, and the truth has found him. There is no way to prove it right, or wrong.
Many people are very inquisitive and need more than faith to difficult answer questions.
This is the biggest problem facing real Christians today. Yes we do need more than faith, and the ultimate apologetic is Love.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by Brian, posted 12-10-2005 1:46 PM Brian has not replied

riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 416 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 21 of 300 (267879)
12-11-2005 7:48 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by coffee_addict
12-11-2005 3:56 PM


Whos going to Hell?
Hang on a second, according to your holy book, some of those people that live in extreme poverty are going to hell anyway, since they never "knew" christ. Huh, hell during life and hell in the afterlife. Go figure.
I don't read the book that way. Maybe that is what people preach, but that is the ultimate condemnation, and if there is one thing I hate most about Chrisitanity, is that. I thought we are not supposed to judge.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by coffee_addict, posted 12-11-2005 3:56 PM coffee_addict has not replied

Hangdawg13
Member (Idle past 751 days)
Posts: 1189
From: Texas
Joined: 05-30-2004


Message 22 of 300 (267891)
12-11-2005 9:03 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by joshua221
12-10-2005 3:28 AM


What led you to God?
God.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by joshua221, posted 12-10-2005 3:28 AM joshua221 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 24 by Phat, posted 12-12-2005 12:13 AM Hangdawg13 has not replied

Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 23 of 300 (267986)
12-12-2005 12:07 AM
Reply to: Message 19 by ringo
12-11-2005 5:35 PM


Communion: Marriage of the soul
Ringo writes:
Was there ever a time when you didn't know life without God? If there was, why can't you remember what it was like? Why can't you answer Brian's question in the form: Was life not beautiful without there being a God?
Its like this, Ringo....you meet a beautiful girl and you fall in love. She becomes the fullfillment of your life!
Never a day goes by that you don't thank God (or your "lucky stars" or fate, or any generic system outside of your control) that you met her! If I were to ask you what your life was like before you met her...you would probably pause and then say that although you had many fun times before you met her, you simply could not imagine life without her at this point in time!
Same with God. You seem to be trying to get me to say that happiness and reality can exist without God...but I am telling you that once He fills your heart you cannot see life without Him ever again!!
At least give me a C+!

Nature is an infinite sphere of which the center is everywhere and the circumference nowhere.
Pensées (1670)
We arrive at truth, not by reason only, but also by the heart.
Pensées (1670)
Heb 4:12-13-- For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart. Nothing in all creation is hidden from God's sight Everything is uncovered and laid bare before the eyes of him to whom we must give account.
Holy Spirit--speaking through the Apostle Paul

This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by ringo, posted 12-11-2005 5:35 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 28 by ringo, posted 12-12-2005 3:18 AM Phat has replied

Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 24 of 300 (267992)
12-12-2005 12:13 AM
Reply to: Message 22 by Hangdawg13
12-11-2005 9:03 PM


Adopt a younger brother in Christ
Brandon, I liked your answer! In fact I loved it! I want you to get to know Charlie on a deeper level! I know both of you and I know that you can help Charlie with some of the issues that he faces and, at the very least, you can pray with each other! E mail him for me, please Brandon! OK? (Tell him that I asked you to do so..share your blog with him.)
Nive avatar, btw! I like the shadow effect and the overall effect of the pic!
PB

This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by Hangdawg13, posted 12-11-2005 9:03 PM Hangdawg13 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 26 by coffee_addict, posted 12-12-2005 1:40 AM Phat has not replied

arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1344 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 25 of 300 (268018)
12-12-2005 1:36 AM
Reply to: Message 16 by macaroniandcheese
12-11-2005 3:53 AM


i'm probably not really a christian anymore.
i think we need to find a new word for us christians that don't fit in. i'm thinking "christists." or maybe "xians" just to piss off buzsaw.

אָרַח

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by macaroniandcheese, posted 12-11-2005 3:53 AM macaroniandcheese has not replied

coffee_addict
Member (Idle past 477 days)
Posts: 3645
From: Indianapolis, IN
Joined: 03-29-2004


Message 26 of 300 (268020)
12-12-2005 1:40 AM
Reply to: Message 24 by Phat
12-12-2005 12:13 AM


Re: Adopt a younger brother in Christ
That's not fair. How come no atheist ever offered to help me when I was going through a period of confusion?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by Phat, posted 12-12-2005 12:13 AM Phat has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 77 by Theodoric, posted 12-14-2005 4:22 AM coffee_addict has replied

arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1344 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 27 of 300 (268029)
12-12-2005 1:57 AM


my story
i used to listen to this old radio. i put it on the classical station at night, to fall asleep. it kept getting interference from a much, much stronger station, with lots of talking. so one night i flipped over to see what it was -- christian radio.
now, i was brought up as a militant athiest. i'm sure you know the type -- we proseltyzed in reverse. so the fact that i even gave the station a shot says a good deal. i listened for a week (maybe more) considering both sides, my options, and what god seemed to mean.
i'd be lying if i said it wasn't partially out of fear, something i still don't consider healthy. but mostly, it was inspiration, a sense of providence, and the teachings of christ that did it. i think the program the night of my salvation was on abraham, and god's plan for him. (maybe i should have really been jewish? )
it came at a very tough time in my life. i was only in middle school at the time, which if you ask any child near you is about the closest thing to hell there is on this earth. (i'm sure it gets much worse, but ask the kid anyways) lessons like loving your enemy were particularly difficult when you got taunted and teased and pushed around everyday. it's all well and good to say you understand it, but practicing it is harder.
some of the theological stuff was harder to iron out. i never really gave creationism any credance. but i sure heard how awful evolution was on that radio. i'd grown up wanting to be a paleontologist. so i knew a lot about geology and biology, enough to realize that their claims were pretty much b.s. but how to reconcile my knowledge of science with the bible? this is probably what began my questioning path, something i'm still on.
i got way involved in the christian guilt cycle. went to church and prayed a whole lot, beat myself up mentally, the whole nine yard. had some bad experiences in the church, some fallings out. if anyone really want to know, maybe i'll share those too.
one of my first bibles is dated christmas 1995, which means i've just passed the 10 year mark. i don't really keep track.

אָרַח

Replies to this message:
 Message 35 by macaroniandcheese, posted 12-12-2005 4:37 PM arachnophilia has replied

ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 28 of 300 (268044)
12-12-2005 3:18 AM
Reply to: Message 23 by Phat
12-12-2005 12:07 AM


Re: Communion: Marriage of the soul
Phat writes:
...but I am telling you that once He fills your heart you cannot see life without Him ever again!!
You're talking about the future when I asked you about the past.
I asked you why you can't remember what life was like without God. A better present and a hoped-for future don't explain erasure of the past. If you can't remember the past, how do you know the present is really better?
At least give me a C+!
I take one point off for every exclamation mark. You're getting a mercy-pass as it is.

People who think they have all the answers usually don't understand the questions.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by Phat, posted 12-12-2005 12:07 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 29 by Phat, posted 12-12-2005 8:09 AM ringo has replied

Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 29 of 300 (268072)
12-12-2005 8:09 AM
Reply to: Message 28 by ringo
12-12-2005 3:18 AM


Just Answer the Question!
Ringo, the man in the black hat with the good heart! How are you this morning?
Ringo writes:
You're talking about the future when I asked you about the past.
I asked you why you can't remember what life was like without God.
OK, OK... Twist my arm. Sheesh.
Life Before God:
1) Addictions
2)Loneliness
3)blissful times partying with friends...none of whom had any more of a clue about life than I did.
4) No knowledge of Charismaniacal church folk beyond what I saw on TV.
5) A vibrant life filled with an endless striving to climb high mountains, lose more weight, and find myself in the process.

Nature is an infinite sphere of which the center is everywhere and the circumference nowhere.
Pensées (1670)
We arrive at truth, not by reason only, but also by the heart.
Pensées (1670)
Heb 4:12-13-- For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart. Nothing in all creation is hidden from God's sight Everything is uncovered and laid bare before the eyes of him to whom we must give account.
Holy Spirit--speaking through the Apostle Paul

This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by ringo, posted 12-12-2005 3:18 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 30 by Brian, posted 12-12-2005 9:33 AM Phat has not replied
 Message 33 by ringo, posted 12-12-2005 1:34 PM Phat has not replied

Brian
Member (Idle past 4959 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 30 of 300 (268093)
12-12-2005 9:33 AM
Reply to: Message 29 by Phat
12-12-2005 8:09 AM


Re: Just Answer the Question!
Life Before God:
1) Addictions
Life with God
1. Addictions
Life Before God:
2)Loneliness
Life with God
2. Invented an invisible friend
Life Before God:
3)blissful times partying with friends...none of whom had any more of a clue about life than I did.
Life with God
Blissful times having tea and scones with friends, all of whom are as deluded as I am.
Life Before God:
4) No knowledge of Charismaniacal church folk beyond what I saw on TV.
Life with God
4. Weekly visits to an asylum
Life Before God:
5) A vibrant life filled with an endless striving to climb high mountains, lose more weight, and find myself in the process.
Life with God
5. A vibrant life filled with an endless downward spiral of self loathing, lose more weight, building an illusion where I feel comfortable.
Don't you think that you have swapped one addiction for another?
Could you survive without your 'Jesus' fix everyday or so?
Brian.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 29 by Phat, posted 12-12-2005 8:09 AM Phat has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 34 by riVeRraT, posted 12-12-2005 4:10 PM Brian has replied
 Message 36 by macaroniandcheese, posted 12-12-2005 4:40 PM Brian has replied

Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024