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Author Topic:   A moral question - writing assignments for cash
CK
Member (Idle past 4127 days)
Posts: 3221
Joined: 07-04-2004


Message 1 of 13 (460246)
03-13-2008 4:25 PM


A client is paying a friend a lot of cash to write assignments for them for a post-graduate qualification. A third party has pointed out that this is immoral but I don't see it. My take is the client's usage of what my friend provides is immoral not my friend's production.
comments?

Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by Silent H, posted 03-13-2008 5:19 PM CK has not replied
 Message 3 by Zawi, posted 03-13-2008 7:22 PM CK has not replied
 Message 4 by Dr Jack, posted 03-14-2008 7:24 AM CK has not replied
 Message 6 by Son Goku, posted 03-14-2008 8:10 AM CK has replied
 Message 7 by fallacycop, posted 03-14-2008 2:44 PM CK has not replied

  
Silent H
Member (Idle past 5819 days)
Posts: 7405
From: satellite of love
Joined: 12-11-2002


Message 2 of 13 (460253)
03-13-2008 5:19 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by CK
03-13-2008 4:25 PM


Hello ck, while I don't personally believe anything is "immoral", I understand that your friend's actions likely would be called that according to common ethical standards and nomenclature.
Obtaining academic qualification is supposed to be an exhibition of personal accomplishment and understanding. There are clear lines drawn for academic honesty with regard to work supplied for assessment. A person handing in fraudulent material would be acting "immoral" under that scheme... as you noted.
A person intentionally aiding that fraud would seem open to criticism along those lines as well. It would be like a person intentionally selling a gun to a psychopath who states in advance he is going to use it to shoot up his family (and this intention is clear). Or perhaps more analogously driving the getaway car for a bank robbery.
When the illicit usage of one's product or service is known in advance, and profits secured for such assistance, one becomes a participant in the act... not an innocent bystander.
From my own ethical outlook, your friend is dishonest, cowardly, abetting ignorance, perhaps greedy, and in some ways unjust (to all the others who actually work for their grade and the teachers whose time is wasted). If that friend is part of academic life, or that institution, one could also add the label disloyal. Certainly the person has removed their credible standing within academia.
Of course beggars can't be choosers. I'd likely do it if the money were right and my need great. The actual harm produced is very minimal and that's a large qualifier if one is looking at some great loss if the money were not taken.
Then again, if the person is doing it for extra spending cash, well I'd say the person's an asshole and ought to cut it out. Yet it takes all kinds to make a world.
One question your friend might ask, is if they'd be happy if while trying to get a position they got nixed from some SOB that used a fake paper to get their creds.

h
"Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing." - Robert E. Howard

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by CK, posted 03-13-2008 4:25 PM CK has not replied

  
Zawi
Member (Idle past 3630 days)
Posts: 126
From: UK
Joined: 12-02-2004


Message 3 of 13 (460261)
03-13-2008 7:22 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by CK
03-13-2008 4:25 PM


I think whether or not they are being immoral depends on what the cheater's major is, but for the most part I don’t think it’s immoral. There are two things here that can be considered 'immoral' (forgetting about the whole debate on whether or not morality exists for a moment): the act of cheating, and the act of aiding the cheater. I'll take them one by one.
In some circumstances it is easy to argue that cheating is wrong. If you cheated at a game in which your actions can directly affect the other player's performance - e.g. chess or pool - then not only are you going to receive undeserved praise for your ability, you are also taking away another person’s rightful claim to praise.
But in the situation of cheating in a test, nobody but the cheater is affected. It’s a similar argument to the old “do what you want as long as you don’t hurt anyone else”. As much as some may argue that it’s not fair on people who have rightfully passed the test, cheating doesn’t affect other test takers at all. It’s not like they won’t receive the qualification if the cheater does.
Nor is the qualification devalued if some of the people that hold the qualification are cheaters. When the cheater enters the world of work he is subject to a system that will naturally weed out the unqualified. If say the cheater is employed to fix computers at an office but doesn’t know how to fix them he’ll soon be sacked.
Depending on the subject though academic fraud can be more or less immoral. If a medical student cheated in the exam and became a surgeon, then a blunder caused by his lack of ability could be fatal, and sacking the cheater would never be enough to compensate for the tragedy that his incompetence caused.
As for the friend who is being paid to write the cheater’s essay, he’s only as immoral as the cheater. So if the cheater majored in say philosophy then the friend is just making a quick buck. He isn't hurting anybody. But if the cheater is going to become a surgeon then the friend is immoral for not having thought through the possible consequences of his actions.
Edited by Zawi, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by CK, posted 03-13-2008 4:25 PM CK has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 5 by Dr Jack, posted 03-14-2008 7:25 AM Zawi has not replied
 Message 8 by Silent H, posted 03-14-2008 2:59 PM Zawi has not replied

  
Dr Jack
Member
Posts: 3514
From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch
Joined: 07-14-2003
Member Rating: 8.7


Message 4 of 13 (460325)
03-14-2008 7:24 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by CK
03-13-2008 4:25 PM


Deliberately aiding another to carry out an act you consider immoral is immoral.
Edited by Mr Jack, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by CK, posted 03-13-2008 4:25 PM CK has not replied

  
Dr Jack
Member
Posts: 3514
From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch
Joined: 07-14-2003
Member Rating: 8.7


Message 5 of 13 (460326)
03-14-2008 7:25 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by Zawi
03-13-2008 7:22 PM


Nor is the qualification devalued if some of the people that hold the qualification are cheaters. When the cheater enters the world of work he is subject to a system that will naturally weed out the unqualified. If say the cheater is employed to fix computers at an office but doesn’t know how to fix them he’ll soon be sacked.
Er, that's why it devalues the qualification. If the employer takes someone with the qualification and they suck, they'll thereafter devalue their assessment of that qualification.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by Zawi, posted 03-13-2008 7:22 PM Zawi has not replied

  
Son Goku
Inactive Member


Message 6 of 13 (460330)
03-14-2008 8:10 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by CK
03-13-2008 4:25 PM


Qualification?
Is this MSc level or PhD? I'm not sure about the American education system so my real question would be, is this a pre-PhD postgraduate qualification?
If it's a PhD, then the school themselves should be ashamed for not catching it or your friend is a super-genius. Is your friend qualified to a similar level (or higher) in this particular subject?
Edited by Son Goku, : Qualificated? My spelling is becoming atrocious.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by CK, posted 03-13-2008 4:25 PM CK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 9 by CK, posted 03-14-2008 3:11 PM Son Goku has not replied

  
fallacycop
Member (Idle past 5520 days)
Posts: 692
From: Fortaleza-CE Brazil
Joined: 02-18-2006


Message 7 of 13 (460372)
03-14-2008 2:44 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by CK
03-13-2008 4:25 PM


Cheating or helping someone cheat are both immoral.
Despite what Zawi said, cheating on a exam is not a victimless act.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by CK, posted 03-13-2008 4:25 PM CK has not replied

  
Silent H
Member (Idle past 5819 days)
Posts: 7405
From: satellite of love
Joined: 12-11-2002


Message 8 of 13 (460375)
03-14-2008 2:59 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by Zawi
03-13-2008 7:22 PM


So if the cheater majored in say philosophy then the friend is just making a quick buck. He isn't hurting anybody. But if the cheater is going to become a surgeon then the friend is immoral for not having thought through the possible consequences of his actions.
While I agree that the degree of physical harm is different, I'm not sure how you can claim there is no harm whatsoever.
This kind of fraud inherently wastes the time of the instructor, and the institution. Time is something very valuable... at least to me it is... and having it wasted by someone else is not cool.
Further, as mrJ points out, it wrecks the credibility of such credentials. That would be true for the students, the teacher, and the institution. The strength of educational systems are their presumed integrity. That integrity relies on people not committing fraud.
And while you might claim that it makes little difference to a company hiring someone, as the inept will be weeded out, it makes a very big difference to the competent person who didn't get the job in the first place.

h
"Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing." - Robert E. Howard

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by Zawi, posted 03-13-2008 7:22 PM Zawi has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 10 by CK, posted 03-14-2008 3:12 PM Silent H has replied

  
CK
Member (Idle past 4127 days)
Posts: 3221
Joined: 07-04-2004


Message 9 of 13 (460379)
03-14-2008 3:11 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by Son Goku
03-14-2008 8:10 AM


Re: Qualification?
It's actually for the post-graduate diploma that makes you a fellow of the IPD (institute of personal management). The person doing the qualification is already an experienced HR professional and membership of the IPD would look nice on his CV.
My friend (like myself) is qualified to PhD level but not in HRM, I've seen the assignments and they are pretty easy, you could knock them out in a day.

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CK
Member (Idle past 4127 days)
Posts: 3221
Joined: 07-04-2004


Message 10 of 13 (460380)
03-14-2008 3:12 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by Silent H
03-14-2008 2:59 PM


quote:
This kind of fraud inherently wastes the time of the instructor, and the institution. Time is something very valuable... at least to me it is... and having it wasted by someone else is not cool.
I don't really understand this objection - they still get the cash, the student still turns up - how is time wasted?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by Silent H, posted 03-14-2008 2:59 PM Silent H has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 11 by Silent H, posted 03-14-2008 3:38 PM CK has replied

  
Silent H
Member (Idle past 5819 days)
Posts: 7405
From: satellite of love
Joined: 12-11-2002


Message 11 of 13 (460382)
03-14-2008 3:38 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by CK
03-14-2008 3:12 PM


I don't really understand this objection - they still get the cash, the student still turns up - how is time wasted?
Okay, maybe that depends on the attitude of the teacher. But from my own perspective, being a teacher doesn't involve getting paid to simply slap a grade on whatever is placed before my face. That's about the only way of thinking which would mean my time wasn't wasted.
The concept, to my mind, is that I'm taking time out of my life to instruct a student. That time can also be spent doing anything else including instructing other students. If a student isn't serious then that person is wasting my time, regardless of the money handed to me... unless my pay is based per student, and there is no one else to fill that person's space.
If a student commits fraud by handing in a paper for an assessment by me, then they are wasting my time as (unlike them) I will actually do the work in assessing it. If a student, takes my errant positive marks and commendations to others and so thereby stands to wreck my own credentials (and all the years I put in to serious study and work) when they turn out to be inept, or discovered as a fraud (and I was a dupe), then they waste my time.
If a student wants to cheat, and not waste my time, why not offer me money for a passing grade (based on the risk to my career) rather than lowballing it and spending money on a phony paper I have to get all serious about grading?
Edited by Silent H, : clarity

h
"Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing." - Robert E. Howard

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by CK, posted 03-14-2008 3:12 PM CK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 12 by CK, posted 03-15-2008 7:37 AM Silent H has replied

  
CK
Member (Idle past 4127 days)
Posts: 3221
Joined: 07-04-2004


Message 12 of 13 (460451)
03-15-2008 7:37 AM
Reply to: Message 11 by Silent H
03-14-2008 3:38 PM


quote:
Okay, maybe that depends on the attitude of the teacher. But from my own perspective, being a teacher doesn't involve getting paid to simply slap a grade on whatever is placed before my face. That's about the only way of thinking which would mean my time wasn't wasted.
Ah it's partly a cultural thing - I worked in academia as a researcher, teaching is consider a waste of time FULL-STOP. It's something that you have to do and gets in the way of your research.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by Silent H, posted 03-14-2008 3:38 PM Silent H has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 13 by Silent H, posted 03-15-2008 2:34 PM CK has not replied

  
Silent H
Member (Idle past 5819 days)
Posts: 7405
From: satellite of love
Joined: 12-11-2002


Message 13 of 13 (460479)
03-15-2008 2:34 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by CK
03-15-2008 7:37 AM


I worked in academia as a researcher, teaching is consider a waste of time FULL-STOP. It's something that you have to do and gets in the way of your research.
While I currently do not work in academia, in my brief brush with it I acquired and agree with the sentiment you just described.
Unfortunately that makes fraud even worse of a waste of time. It is bad enough wasting time teaching when one could be researching. It is worse when one shouldn't have spent time at all on a fraudulent student's paper, nor tracking and aiding their fraudulent career.
Fraud is a gift that keeps on giving, sort of like syphilis, in that it is a waste that keeps on wasting.
As I said, one thing I wouldn't consider a waste is the time I spent building my own credentials and good name. When the cheater enters the working world with my backing, and is found to be a hack, it puts all that work I put in to waste. What credentials would I have to that employer, if the student I passed with high marks clearly doesn't know dick?
If the student gets caught out as having perpetrated a fraud some time down the road, that would still put a dent in my image even if it explains the idiot of a student having gotten high marks.
For me it goes beyond just in class time issues. If a student wants to cheat, at least do it fairly and offer a bribe to the teacher.

h
"Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing." - Robert E. Howard

This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by CK, posted 03-15-2008 7:37 AM CK has not replied

  
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