Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total)
3 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,817 Year: 3,074/9,624 Month: 919/1,588 Week: 102/223 Day: 0/13 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   What is the evolutionary advantage to religion?
robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 31 of 167 (172347)
12-30-2004 5:20 PM
Reply to: Message 30 by coffee_addict
12-30-2004 4:44 PM


History
You know, Lam, you might want to think about what history is before you start criticizing the people of the past.
History produced YOU--this nice, open-minded young man with the great education, this 21st century paragon.
It's not like knowledge started developing around 1985 or so.
The people of the past made YOU.
What you know is what they found out.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 30 by coffee_addict, posted 12-30-2004 4:44 PM coffee_addict has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 32 by coffee_addict, posted 12-30-2004 5:23 PM robinrohan has replied
 Message 35 by Phat, posted 12-30-2004 5:56 PM robinrohan has not replied

  
coffee_addict
Member (Idle past 477 days)
Posts: 3645
From: Indianapolis, IN
Joined: 03-29-2004


Message 32 of 167 (172348)
12-30-2004 5:23 PM
Reply to: Message 31 by robinrohan
12-30-2004 5:20 PM


Re: History
Tell me where I criticized the people in history.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by robinrohan, posted 12-30-2004 5:20 PM robinrohan has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 33 by robinrohan, posted 12-30-2004 5:25 PM coffee_addict has replied

  
robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 33 of 167 (172349)
12-30-2004 5:25 PM
Reply to: Message 32 by coffee_addict
12-30-2004 5:23 PM


Re: History
Your last two posts.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by coffee_addict, posted 12-30-2004 5:23 PM coffee_addict has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 38 by coffee_addict, posted 12-30-2004 7:29 PM robinrohan has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 34 of 167 (172354)
12-30-2004 5:52 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by coffee_addict
12-30-2004 2:29 PM


Does Belief ever evolve? What about human nature?
Lam writes:
Person A: What's fire?
Person B: Um... uh... it must be beyond our comprehension.
Person C: Hey, you're right. There must be a "supernatural being" of some sort to maintain the fire.
Person A: Ok, let's all worship the fire "god".
However, Deuteronomy indicates that the people were commanded to worship no image. God was and is a Spirit.
Deut 4:15-20=You saw no form of any kind the day the LORD spoke to you at Horeb out of the fire. Therefore watch yourselves very carefully, 16 so that you do not become corrupt and make for yourselves an idol, an image of any shape, whether formed like a man or a woman, 17 or like any animal on earth or any bird that flies in the air, 18 or like any creature that moves along the ground or any fish in the waters below. 19 And when you look up to the sky and see the sun, the moon and the stars--all the heavenly array--do not be enticed into bowing down to them and worshiping things the LORD your God has apportioned to all the nations under heaven.
In other words, worship the Spirit and not the universe, the technology, other "attractive" people such as movie stars...etc..Early religion was an idea of philosophy.
I was stating my opinion that religion has an advantage over science and philosophy because it is easy to swallow and it justifies a lot of prejudice and hate that people tend to have.
True enough that religion has been abused. I see human tendencies as proof of a fallen inner nature that no amount of evolution will ever fix. As for science and philosophy without religion, look at Nazi Germany to see the fruits of THAT logic. IMHO, anyway.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by coffee_addict, posted 12-30-2004 2:29 PM coffee_addict has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 36 by robinrohan, posted 12-30-2004 6:02 PM Phat has not replied
 Message 65 by nator, posted 01-02-2005 8:57 AM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 35 of 167 (172355)
12-30-2004 5:56 PM
Reply to: Message 31 by robinrohan
12-30-2004 5:20 PM


Re: History
robin writes:
The people of the past made YOU.
What you know is what they found out.
And think about this:
Just as ancients in the jungle knew all about pharmacology by simply knowing which plants to use without being able to explain it So it is with spiritual encounters with God being passed down through oral tradition without need of quantification, Quantum Physics, mysticism, or any other of mans feeble attempts to intellectualize a spiritual experience. For some, Belief works. Whether from an internal reinforcement or an external impartation, science has as yet been unable to quantify what is certainly more than just daydreams and fantasies. I am not saying that the fundamentalists actually are right, but given the wide scope of the types of personalities and individuals who DO believe, and given the fact that religious experiences STILL gather followers, there must be a biological need for a Creator.
This message has been edited by Phatboy, 12-31-2004 23:40 AM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by robinrohan, posted 12-30-2004 5:20 PM robinrohan has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 66 by nator, posted 01-02-2005 9:08 AM Phat has not replied

  
robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 36 of 167 (172356)
12-30-2004 6:02 PM
Reply to: Message 34 by Phat
12-30-2004 5:52 PM


Re: Does Belief ever evolve? What about human nature?
Shouldn't "Lord" be translated as "Yahweh"--the God of the mountain?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by Phat, posted 12-30-2004 5:52 PM Phat has not replied

  
PerfectDeath
Inactive Member


Message 37 of 167 (172365)
12-30-2004 7:22 PM


considering religion
i don't consider religion as something to restrain our rights... it only developed into that.
religion is our ancestor's attempts at explaining something... were they stupid... well, yes only because they did not have the education we have ,but they sure as hell have the same capacity for lerning as we do.

  
coffee_addict
Member (Idle past 477 days)
Posts: 3645
From: Indianapolis, IN
Joined: 03-29-2004


Message 38 of 167 (172369)
12-30-2004 7:29 PM
Reply to: Message 33 by robinrohan
12-30-2004 5:25 PM


Re: History
If you see it that way, the truth hurts.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by robinrohan, posted 12-30-2004 5:25 PM robinrohan has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 51 by robinrohan, posted 01-01-2005 2:18 AM coffee_addict has replied

  
macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3928 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 39 of 167 (172406)
12-30-2004 10:11 PM
Reply to: Message 25 by robinrohan
12-30-2004 2:56 PM


Re: General question about this topic
does playing the quitar get you laid?
art is a cultural evolution but it has influence our genetics. sometimes, those who are artistically talented will breed more than the more athletically inclined. thus the cultural has influenced what genes get passed on. do preist get laid more? (sorry. had to insert the obvious joke.) but judaism requires marriage for their religious officials and all but shuns ordinary followers who don't reproduce (how else will they be numbered as the stars?). humans are interesting creatures. our intellect and communication skills allows us to surpass 'mere' genetics. religion may or may not have any evolutionary bonus, but it is one of the obvious responses to the very same question we ask when receiving gifts (on christmas?) "what else?". humans question their environment. herein lies the source of religion, not in some desire to breed.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by robinrohan, posted 12-30-2004 2:56 PM robinrohan has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 46 by RAZD, posted 12-30-2004 10:44 PM macaroniandcheese has replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 40 of 167 (172409)
12-30-2004 10:17 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by robinrohan
12-28-2004 1:30 PM


a genetic tendency toward religious belief in certain people,
would be the implication.
why is it so prevalent if there is no survival\reproductive benefit?
(sorry to be so late responding but notifications not working on this thread)

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
{{{Buddha walks off laughing with joy}}}

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by robinrohan, posted 12-28-2004 1:30 PM robinrohan has not replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 41 of 167 (172410)
12-30-2004 10:20 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by Ben!
12-28-2004 8:23 PM


the emphasis is slightly different - in that topic the question is mone on how religion could have evolved (interesting in it's own right)
this is more on why it persists: the trait must have some survival\reproductive benefit for it to persist.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by Ben!, posted 12-28-2004 8:23 PM Ben! has not replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 42 of 167 (172413)
12-30-2004 10:25 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by Gilgamesh
12-28-2004 10:29 PM


I think you are close on this. it reduces the value of self compared to the value of the {group\blessed\chosen} with a promised reward after death.
but excessive reckless disregard would also be counterproductive.
what is the check\balance?

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
{{{Buddha walks off laughing with joy}}}

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by Gilgamesh, posted 12-28-2004 10:29 PM Gilgamesh has not replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 43 of 167 (172414)
12-30-2004 10:28 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by PerfectDeath
12-29-2004 12:02 AM


Re: facing death?
I think you have a good concept on why it began, but the persistance is a different issue.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by PerfectDeath, posted 12-29-2004 12:02 AM PerfectDeath has not replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 44 of 167 (172416)
12-30-2004 10:33 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by Andya Primanda
12-29-2004 4:58 AM


this might be linked to the co-evolution of religion as a by-product of reproductive display activity.
one of the theories of religious evolution is that it is a by-product of the sexually selected abilities of song and dance courtship displays, and all one has to do is connect that to the rituals with song and dance for relgions and with their use by "primitive" tribes before inter-tribal warfare.
but is causing war and strife beneficial to the species?

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
{{{Buddha walks off laughing with joy}}}

This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by Andya Primanda, posted 12-29-2004 4:58 AM Andya Primanda has not replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 45 of 167 (172418)
12-30-2004 10:37 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by robinrohan
12-30-2004 12:41 PM


Re: General question about this topic
one also needs to distinguish between survival selection and breeding selection.
the point is to survive to breed, thus both are critical, and survival without ability, resources or reward to breed is the same result as death, but sexual selection causes entirely different features to be selected than survival: compare "members" between humans and other apes ....

This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by robinrohan, posted 12-30-2004 12:41 PM robinrohan has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024