|
Register | Sign In |
|
QuickSearch
Thread ▼ Details |
|
Thread Info
|
|
|
Author | Topic: Will you oppose to scientific conclusions if they'll lead to theology? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Electron Inactive Member |
I am well aware of the use of solipsism as a device to drop arguments that embody assumptions about reality, but it can easily be escaped by using the right definitions: for example the term 'reality' must be defined in some manner, and properties of reality must not be assumed a priori.
On this basis your 'point' would seem to contain a number of assumptions as well. If you wish to maintain a monopoly on reality, I'll settle for 'accurate models that explain what I observe'
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
mike the wiz Member Posts: 4755 From: u.k Joined: |
Shraffy writes: Just because we do not understand something, and may never understand it, does not mean that any supernatural means must be invoked. Only the difference is - that these events (NDE's)are inherently supernaturalistic and not invoked. The only conclusion which seems to be plausible, is that there is life after death, as the patients are brain-dead at the time and therefore we aren't invoking anything that they aren't already claiming. I mean come on, the best of my vivid dreams are had with a fully functioning brain, and they're lame. So if - as you say, we will never have an answer, why do you ideologically claim that God/supernatural can't be that answer, or that it is invoked? It sounds like you just dismiss these claims because of stubborn pre-conception and atheistic inclinations. If someone said that ligtning was because of God - then that would be invoking Goddidit. But when someone meets God how are we invoking him? Is he not already in the picture?
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
christian atheist Inactive Member |
quote: Just to add to the PI thing, if you convert PI into binary, every software that ever was and ever will be written will be found in Pi. Not only that, every picture that ever exists and could exists is in Pi. Somewhere in the infinite digits of Pi exists a picture of Hillary Clinton being inaugurated President, Jesus taking a swim on the beach, and me making out with Britney Spears. Hard to believe, huh (especially the Britney Spears part)? This message has been edited by christian atheist, 02-13-2005 13:44 AM
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Chiroptera Inactive Member |
Will someone remind me why any finite string of digits are necessarily contained somewhere in the decimal expansion of pi? I mean, without looking up the first million digits of pi, can someone prove that somewhere in the decimal representation there is a 5 immediately followed by a 2?
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
jar Member (Idle past 422 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Actually that combo shows up within the first 175 places.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Chiroptera Inactive Member |
Hi, jar.
Maybe, but I specifically asked for a proof that didn't involve looking up the digits, heh. There seems to be an assertian on this thread that any finite sequence of numbers must appear in the decimal representation of pi. I have never seen a proof of this. I assume that people are saying this because they think that since pi is irrational it's decimal representation is not periodic, and then that means it must contain, somewhere, any finite sequence of digits you can think of. This is most assuredly false. On the other hand, maybe there is something about pi itself where this is true; however, I have not seen this written anywhere.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
jar Member (Idle past 422 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
You know I'm too old and lazy to actually be able to come up with proof. If someone hasn't done it before me I'm in deep kimshi; originality and creativity are something only to be dreamed of.
But let's try a stupid approach that sometimes works for an old man. Maybe we'll get a chochmeh. If roll a dice an infinte number of times will I ever get a 1? Aslan is not a Tame Lion
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
christian atheist Inactive Member |
To be honest, I'm not sure it's true, either. I went to a Math lecture about random numbers and I asked if the digits in Pi were random. The professor said, as far as we can tell, to whatever billion digits they were at, it seemed so.
However, who know? Maybe after the 10^1000 digits, nothing by 0's and 1's appear (but in unpredictable order). The number would still be non-periodic and still be irrational. Does anyone with a math degree know more? (Sorry if this is all off topic)
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
JonF Member (Idle past 196 days) Posts: 6174 Joined: |
There seems to be an assertian on this thread that any finite sequence of numbers must appear in the decimal representation of pi. I asserted that, and I sure think I saw a proof somewhere, but I'm having a bit of trouble digging it up. In the meantime, Search the first 400 million digits of pi.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Chiroptera Inactive Member |
Are you assuming that the digits in pi form a truly random sequence?
Here is a nice irrational number: 5.05005000500005000005000000500000005000000005... I can specify lots of finite sequences that never appear in this decimal expansion. but then, this sequence is not very random. I know that sometimes people use the digits of pi to produce a sequence of random digits, but I don't think that it has been proven that pi behaves as a truly random sequence. By the way, I see that you are an admin now. Congratulations.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Chiroptera Inactive Member |
Hi, Jon.
Yes, if the digits of pi do form a truly random sequence (whatever that means) then jar's explanation would be sound -- given any finite sequence we the probability that we would find that sequence would approach 1 as we look further and further out in the expansion. On the other hand, there may be other reasons to believe that pi contains all finite sequences even it were not truly random.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
jar Member (Idle past 422 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Well, TTBOMK no one has yet proven that any of the numbers like pi or the squareroot of 2 are random but IIRC, the folk at Lawrence berkley were making some early steps towards proving Hypothesis A. If that is ever proven then there would at least be a likelyhood of a general proof.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Chiroptera Inactive Member |
I actually dislike number theory. I wonder if they are going to make me teach it here?
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
jar Member (Idle past 422 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Well, before the Fall it was much easier. In the Garden of Eden there were only natural numbers. It was only after the Fall that we were cursed with complex or irrational numbers. There were not even negative numbers until the serpent looked back over where he thought his shoulder was located.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Maxwell's Demon Member (Idle past 6257 days) Posts: 59 From: Stockholm, Sweden Joined: |
Certainly it contains all finite strings of numbers. I'm not sure about infinite strings ... does it contain itself? Oy!
You'd think it's trivially true that it contains itself.
|
|
|
Do Nothing Button
Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved
Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024