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Author | Topic: Christianity and the End Times | |||||||||||||||||||||||
jar Member (Idle past 394 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Faith writes: Tradition says the New testament was written by the people whose names are on the books. Tradition that goes back to the beginning. No Faith, most chapters of Club Christian realized hundreds of years ago that the stories in the Old and New Testament were only attributed to the person named as author and that in fact they were written and edited and redacted and modified by unknown people at unknown times.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17822 Joined: Member Rating: 2.2 |
An apologist - by definition - is interested in defending a particular view rather than in discovering the truth. Hence an apologist is biased - by definition.
If bias is your concern you should trust scholars - scholars acting as scholars - over apologists. And that’s before considering how bad apologetics can get.
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jar Member (Idle past 394 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Fifty million Frenchmen can be wrong.
Of course Apologists have an agenda; to defend their particular Christianity, Dogma and God they created. That is what "Apologist" means. It states that what is actually written should be ignored or interpreted to fit the dogma. The big difference between Christian Apologists and Jewish Apologists though is honesty. If you read the Jewish Talmuds you are immediately struck by the fact that in the Talmud each sction includes relevant quotes from a succession of Rabbis each presenting a different interpretation or conclusion with NO single answer defined as authoritative. It is the exact opposite of the Christian Apologists position that their position is authoritative.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
All that stuff like tht there ever was a "Q" or any other precursor doctuments to the current text of the Bible is nothing but the wild imaginings of so called "scholars." They have no evide3nce, it's all their own speculations. The Bible was written as we find it, by the people it is attributed to, or under their authority in the case of Moses, and who cares if parts of it were cop0ied from other parts, that does not change the basic facts. The "scholars" should never have been allowed to get their filthy profane hands on it.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Faith uses "revisionist" as a swear-word, as if the "traditional" ideas should never be challenged. There's nothing wrong with revising our thinking as new evidence is discovered. Remember how bleeding was traditional before medical science revised its thinking? The Zondervan source is not known for revisionist thinking....And our geese will blot out the sun.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Traditional views should NOT every be challenged, except by other traditionalists on minor points. The antisupernatural scholars have no business saying anything at all about it.
Come Soon, Lord Jesus, before this planet gets even crazier.
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ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes:
Did you read my post at all? Did you miss this part?
Traditional views should NOT every be challenged...quote:Do you think we should still be bleeding people because it's traditional? Come on. Use your head for once. Faith writes:
That's like saying nobody should challenge criminals except other criminals - a truly idiotic statement.
... except by other traditionalists on minor points. Faith writes:
It has nothing to do with the supernatural. It has to do with looking at the facts, like medical science looked at the facts and decided that the tradition of bleeding was more harmful than helpful. The antisupernatural scholars have no business saying anything at all about it.And our geese will blot out the sun.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17822 Joined: Member Rating: 2.2 |
quote: So the Reformation was a horrible mistake ?
quote: Maybe you should stop adding to the craziness then. Seriously, this silly diversion - all because you want the Gospels to exactly reproduce Jesus’ words, and don’t care about whether it’s true or not - is the craziest thing in this thread.
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GDR Member Posts: 6202 From: Sidney, BC, Canada Joined: Member Rating: 1.9 |
Faith writes:
I even gave you the quote from Luke where he says quite clearly that it came from previous sources, and those sources came from eyewitnesses of the events and/or early followers. All that stuff like tht there ever was a "Q" or any other precursor doctuments to the current text of the Bible is nothing but the wild imaginings of so called "scholars." They have no evide3nce, it's all their own speculations. The Bible was written as we find it, by the people it is attributed to, or under their authority in the case of Moses, and who cares if parts of it were cop0ied from other parts, that does not change the basic facts. The "scholars" should never have been allowed to get their filthy profane hands on it. I also say thank you Lord for the Christian scholars who can make sense of the Scriptures in their historical context, so that we don't twist them into something they were ever intended to be by 21st century readers with only a 21st century understanding of language.He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God. Micah 6:8
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
No, Luke does NOT say he got his material from others. What he says is that a lot has already been written and it's well known among people, but he thought he would ALSO write his own account, since he believed he had a specially good understanding of it, much of which he'd heard from eyewitnesses among other things. If he was saying he'd taken it from others then that would have been recognized all along but as far as I know nobody had such an idea about it until the scholars you admire.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9489 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.9 |
Wht you've got is hearsay and literary criticism.
Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
What YOU've got is total ignorance.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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GDR Member Posts: 6202 From: Sidney, BC, Canada Joined: Member Rating: 1.9 |
Faith writes: No, Luke does NOT say he got his material from others. What he says is that a lot has already been written and it's well known among people, but he thought he would ALSO write his own account, since he believed he had a specially good understanding of it, much of which he'd heard from eyewitnesses among other things. If he was saying he'd taken it from others then that would have been recognized all along but as far as I know nobody had such an idea about it until the scholars you admire. OK. Let's look at what Luke says.quote:He clearly states that others have written up accounts, (likely the other synoptic Gospels included), "JUST" as they were handed down by the eyewitnesses and the first Jesus followers. He carefully investigated everything from the beginning so that he could write an orderly account. It is likely he used his own wording or he may have copied verbatim the earlier material but that isn't the point. I would add that some discount the Gospel accounts as they were written later in the first century but the material in the Gospels comes from much earlier accounts. He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God. Micah 6:8
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Luke is saying he has knowledge worth ADDING to the other accounts, since he's saying the basics of the faith are already known to believers, who include himself and Theophilus to whom he is writing. He wouldn't be intending to write the same information he's just said is already well known to believers.. And his gospel includes information that is NOT IN the other accounts. It is his own work, based on his own research, which most people think includes interviews of Mary herself. There is nothing about Luke's account that suggests reliance on others at all. there is a massive ABSENCE of evidence for any "Q" source.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
Luke is saying he has knowledge worth ADDING to the other accounts, since he's saying the basics of the faith are already known to believers, who include himself and Theophilus to whom he is writing. This is ridiculous. Luke was not a first hand witness. Everything he writes comes from the account or accounts of someone else That is not the least bit controversial. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door! We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World. Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith No it is based on math I studied in sixth grade, just plain old addition, substraction and multiplication. -- ICANT
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