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Author | Topic: Einstein and God | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Percy Member Posts: 22499 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 4.9
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Einstein's 'God Letter' is back on the market: Einstein’s ‘God Letter,’ a Viral Missive From 1954. The letter became public in 2008 and sold for $404,000. It's now for sale again at Christie's and is expected to go in the $1 million to $1.5 million dollar range. This is the portion that gets all the attention, translated from the German:
quote: Einstein's various expressions of his views on God were not consistent, and he, like other scientists, often used God as a metaphor for science, as when he said, "God does not play dice," as an objection to quantum theory. This letter will only add to the debate about what Einstein really thought about God. --Percy
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AdminNosy Administrator Posts: 4754 From: Vancouver, BC, Canada Joined: |
Thread copied here from the Einstein and God thread in the Proposed New Topics forum.
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1.61803 Member (Idle past 1531 days) Posts: 2928 From: Lone Star State USA Joined:
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This excerpt seems pretty cut and dry though.
It seems he was a atheist.
quote: I myself struggle with my faith all the time. But I have found some measure of comfort at times, when everything seems impossible and dire, that there may be a God and perhaps some measure of hope in the face of hopelessness. I fluctuate between every degree of believing-agnositc-atheist-nihlist all the time."You were not there for the beginning. You will not be there for the end. Your knowledge of what is going on can only be superficial and relative" William S. Burroughs
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Taq Member Posts: 10077 Joined: Member Rating: 5.1
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1.61803 writes: This excerpt seems pretty cut and dry though.It seems he was a atheist. I would agree that Einstein was an atheist in the traditional sense. He seemed to be quite consistent in lacking a belief in a personal deity. He made allusions to pantheism at times, but that seemed to be more of a wishy-washy hippy spiritualism, or more charitably a sense of awe and wonder when looking at nature. I really don't see why it makes any difference either way. There were many very intelligent people through the ages that were devout theists, atheists, and those who believed all sorts of crazy things. Evidently, intelligence is not a panacea for fallibility. Edited by Taq, : No reason given.
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caffeine Member (Idle past 1051 days) Posts: 1800 From: Prague, Czech Republic Joined:
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Einstein's various expressions of his views on God were not consistent Einstein spent 76 years on this earth. I've expressed many inconsistent ideas in about half that time. Arguments about what dead people 'really' thought never seem to take account of the fact that people's views change over time.
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Phat Member Posts: 18338 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
And paying a million dollars for a letter seems only to be an investment ina historical item of value appreciating.
Does Einstein's intelligence make his view on God more complete than yours or mine? Hawking missed the mark, i think.
Stephen hawking writes: I regard the brain as a computer which will stop working when its components fail, he told the Guardian. There is no heaven or afterlife for broken down computers; that is a fairy story for people afraid of the dark.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
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1.61803 Member (Idle past 1531 days) Posts: 2928 From: Lone Star State USA Joined: |
I just read a article:
After you die, your brain knows you’re dead, terrifying study reveals Does Your Brain Know When You’re Dead? Apparently we know we are dead right after we die. this is kind of unsettling. The thought of laying there on the gurney knowing you are dead. Then what? The big mystery. I'll admit that it frightens me.I like Gandalf's take on it. quote: Edited by 1.61803, : fix link"You were not there for the beginning. You will not be there for the end. Your knowledge of what is going on can only be superficial and relative" William S. Burroughs
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Phat Member Posts: 18338 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0
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I would have loved to be a fly on the wall listening to some of Tolkiens conversations with CS Lewis.
This source provides an entertaining and informative Blog on the matter:
85 Years Ago Today: J. R. R. Tolkien Convinces C. S. Lewis That Christ Is the True Myth Edited by Phat, : added linkChance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
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1.61803 Member (Idle past 1531 days) Posts: 2928 From: Lone Star State USA Joined:
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When I was a soldier I worked on a General Medical ward in El Paso
WBAMC. I seen death almost on a daily basis. I'll never forget a gentleman in my care was terminal and told me he was going to die "tonight at 9:00 pm." As my shift drew on I kept a eye on the clock and when it was about 20:45 hrs I went into his room. He was still alive and talking and he asked me, " Is there anything you want to tell God cuz I'm gonna see him tonight." I thought for a moment and said to myself, this is a unique opportunity to get a message directly to God. So I told they guy to just let God know I am doing my best as a person and have mercy on me. The guy said he would relay my message.I did my best to comfort the old guy and reassure him that he had a good life and was a good man and a good husband. All the sort of things you can think of to comfort someone dying. He did die that shift but not a 9:00 like he thought. I envy that mans faith that he took such comfort in his beliefs. I envy his certainty. Stephan Hawking must of suffered terribly throughout his life with his illness and despite the consensus of doctors he lived a long and fruitful life. We needed a Stephan Hawking and thankfully we got one. And to quote some old Irish priest I know ( in his thick Irish Brogue). "Even if you don't believe in God, he still believes in you." "You were not there for the beginning. You will not be there for the end. Your knowledge of what is going on can only be superficial and relative" William S. Burroughs
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AZPaul3 Member Posts: 8554 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 4.9 |
Apparently we know we are dead right after we die. I don't know about that. Heart stoppage is not death. A total lack of brain activity is death. To be aware, in any sense, requires brain activity. Electrical impulses stimulating neurons. After your heart stops and your lungs stop I can see where brain activity may continue for some time until the electrical activity of the neurons ceases. Until that happens you are not dead. Your conscience may know that you are ABOUT to die, but, no, you are not yet dead. That electrical activity may be at a level too low for our present EEG technology to detect, but, until all such activity ceases you are not dead and may, if you're real lucky (unlucky?) be resuscitated. I dispute the pop-presses sensationalist reporting of the phenomenon. And if some of the quotes from the studies authors are correct then I dispute the authors' definitions as well as their ability to communicate to the press. Still, the thought of lying there knowing you have taken your last breath for a number of minutes is not a pleasant one. Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given. Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.
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1.61803 Member (Idle past 1531 days) Posts: 2928 From: Lone Star State USA Joined: |
I agree with this. But still the idea of having a sudden cardiac arrest and be conscious long enough to know it sheesh.
Then there is always the idea of a sudden decapitation and whether or not there is enough time and neural activity to formulate a thought that .....damn I'm dead."You were not there for the beginning. You will not be there for the end. Your knowledge of what is going on can only be superficial and relative" William S. Burroughs
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AZPaul3 Member Posts: 8554 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 4.9 |
When Antoine-Laurent de Lavoisier was guillotined during the French Revolution it is said that as his last service to science (he was instrumental in the discovery of hydrogen, development of the metric system and an elementary table, etc.) he agreed to blink as fast as he could for as long as he could once the blade fell. Sources differ but the most common report is that he kept up his blinking for around 30 seconds. Plenty of time to think, "Well, this is not the best day I've ever had."
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Tanypteryx Member Posts: 4443 From: Oregon, USA Joined: Member Rating: 5.0 |
Then there is always the idea of a sudden decapitation and whether or not there is enough time and neural activity to formulate a thought that .....damn I'm dead. I'm pretty sure my last thought would be...."Wait, STOP!" What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq
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iano Member (Idle past 1968 days) Posts: 6165 From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland. Joined: |
It occurs to me:
For those who believe a proof is necessary, no proof is necessary".
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1.61803 Member (Idle past 1531 days) Posts: 2928 From: Lone Star State USA Joined: |
"You were not there for the beginning. You will not be there for the end. Your knowledge of what is going on can only be superficial and relative" William S. Burroughs
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