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Author | Topic: Historical Plausibility of Paul's Story | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
imageinvisible Member (Idle past 5918 days) Posts: 132 From: Arlington, Texas, US Joined: |
Out of all the Apostles, I never would have expected Paul/Saul of Tarsis would be the one questioned historically speaking, but he is credited for writting 13 of the books found in the new testiment. But then this isn't the first time his validity has been questioned, and probly not the last. Pauls writings are considered to be some of the earliest manusctripts. Saul of Tarsis was both a Roman citizen and a Jew.
The book of Acts was written down by Luke (from the gospel of Luke) who has been noted as 'a historian of the highest caliber.' God bless you and keep reading. Edited by imageinvisible, : removing text 21 Yet these may ye eat of every flying creeping thing that goeth upon [all] four, which have legs above their feet, to leap withal upon the earth; 22 [Even] these of them ye may eat; the locust after his kind, and the bald locust after his kind, and the beetle after his kind, and the grasshopper after his kind
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AdminPhat Inactive Member |
Concerning your post and the Forum Guidelines. may I bring up rule #6: Avoid lengthy cut-n-pastes. Introduce the point in your own words and provide a link to your source as a reference. If your source is not on-line you may contact the Site Administrator to have it made available on-line.
Edited by AdminPhat, : No reason given. You may also take your argument here and get feedback from other administrators. Usually, we leave topic promotion to the first administrator that responds, unless that administrator invites others to comment. ************************************ "DO UNTO OTHERS AS YOU WOULD HAVE THEM DO UNTO YOU" AdminPhat
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Brian Member (Idle past 4959 days) Posts: 4659 From: Scotland Joined: |
Out of all the Apostles, I never would have expected Paul/Saul of Tarsis would be the one questioned historically speaking, We are only questioning the historical plausibility of the events surrounding his 'conversion' experience.
but he is credited for writting 13 of the books found in the new testiment. He hasnt been credited with 13 books for quite some time now, last I heard only 6 or 7 books are now credited to him.
The book of Acts was written down by Luke (from the gospel of Luke) who has been noted as 'a historian of the highest caliber.' Only by non-historians. There are some real problems with the 'history' of this book. The census, for example, is riddled with historical errors.
He was executed in Rome, under Nero, in about A.D. 67. Well, truth be told, no one knows how, where, or even when, Paul was killed.
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ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
imageinvisible writes: And God demonstrates the infallable nature of His Word in Lev 11:20,23 where by He says "Though shalt not eat the praying mantids" Funny how God demonstrates His infallibility by misspelling "thou". Disclaimer: The above statement is without a doubt, the most LUDICROUS, IDIOTIC AND PERFECT EXAMPLE OF WILLFUL STUPIDITY, THAT I HAVE EVER SEEN OR HEARD.
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Force Inactive Member |
bump..
Edited by tthzr3, : No reason given. Edited by tthzr3, : No reason given. Edited by tthzr3, : No reason given. Edited by tthzr3, : red font Edited by tthzr3, : No reason given. Thank you
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IamJoseph Member (Idle past 3668 days) Posts: 2822 Joined: |
quote: Is the fact that Paul was expelled from the christian-jewish sect in Jerusalem, any impact on what is described as conversion? Prior to Paul, there was no doctrines or belief of later christianity, which better accords with a new religion happening here, than one which he converted to. I note also, that Paul and jesus never met, and the people of the region, aside from [now called] Europeans, never agreed with Paul - including the Arab-muslims of this region. Thus Paul, not jesus, was the breakdown of christianity from its mother religion. The advocations of Paul were also an emulation of a war between Hellenist Greeks and Jews 250 years previously: the same doctrines were made, and rejected by the Jews. This makes everything attributed as coming from a jewish Jesus incredibly non-credible, being said only by third party reportings, well outside its spacetime. There is no evidence the current christian doctrines were said by, or condoned by, Jesus, or any other jew/s in all recorded history or archeology; only its non-confusing reverse is evidential.
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IamJoseph Member (Idle past 3668 days) Posts: 2822 Joined: |
quote: I don't think so. All the references quoted are from the NT, from a different spacetime and motive. The quotes about the jews wanting to kill Paul is not related to christianity, but his advocations which directly contradicted the core beliefs of judaism held for 2000 years. Here, the notion of pharisee, etc also cannot relate to their being overly strict; there was no sector in Judaism which agreed with Paul, as there cannot be any Judaism, nor any sector of it, with Paul. Also, that Paul was accepted like a wild fire, is only related to peoples outside Judaism, mainly there was an already waiting audience for what Paul said: he could not have failed if he tried. This amalgamation proposal was already preceded with the greeks, who became very closely attached to the OT after their translation of it in 300 BCE [The septuagint]. They proposed, that Moses be made a universeal figure for all humanity, and the Jews accepted it. This sublime notion fell down because the greeks also wanted the God of Zeus and israel to become melted and form one new image for worship - which contradicted the core laws of judaism. It could never succeed when Paul made such proposals. In 70 CE, all this came to a head, when Jews became the only nation which refused Rome's decree to worship a divine emperor in their temple, resulting in the greatest defense of a faith in all recorded history: over a million Jews gave their lives, country and Jerusalem, fighting to the last man standing in the temple and at Masada. What is required, and does not appear to exist, is a shred of hard copy, contemporanous relic, such as a writing manuscript or scroll, preferably in Hebrew - agreeing with anything stated here of Paul and the Pharisees. This was a time when writings was commonplace and copious: Josephus, Dead Sea Scrolls, Jewish writings, Roman writings, etc. There is no excuse for the total vacansee of proof at this time - except that the Gospel writings occured in another spacetime than what it is describing.
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imageinvisible Member (Idle past 5918 days) Posts: 132 From: Arlington, Texas, US Joined: |
What contradiction? Please elaborate.
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Force Inactive Member |
bump...
Edited by tthzr3, : No reason given. Thank you
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imageinvisible Member (Idle past 5918 days) Posts: 132 From: Arlington, Texas, US Joined: |
they heard the sound but did not see anyone
saw the light, but they did not understand the voice This is your 'contradiction'?
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imageinvisible Member (Idle past 5918 days) Posts: 132 From: Arlington, Texas, US Joined: |
Ok, hypothetically speaking here, lets suppose he wasn't being completely honest. Here is a guy who is going around the Jewish comunity, claiming to know the Messiah, and claiming that the Messiah sent him to preach His gospel. First question; Did any of you read the Old Testiment or the Torah? Remember the Mosaic Laws? Do you know what God says to do to a false prophet? It was an edict From God to stone people (specificaly other Jews) who preached any God but the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Here you have a man who the Jews would have concidered to be twisting the word of God, a false prophet. Being a prophet is a bad enough gig for a Jew at any rate, tell a lie and get stoned, tell the truth and get stoned, these guys where hard on their prophets, but they where even harder on the false prophets. Yet here is a man going around preaching and teaching the salvation of men, not just for the Jews but for the gentiles as well, by grace, through faith in Christ Jesus, whom the Jews did not accept as the Messiah. Whether he's telling the truth or not, he's K.O.S. (Kill On Sight) If anyone has any doubts about this I'd like to see them march into the middle of Tel Aviv or Jerusalem and start preaching Christ as the Messiah. Ten buck says they'll be throwing rocks (if not granades) inside of ten minutes. Furthermore there are atleast 2 accounts (one his own and another from a later date) that say he was beaten more than once, stoned more than once, imprisoned more than once, and he was probly even killed for what he was teaching. Why, in the world, would anyone go through all of that trouble if it was a lie? Not to mention all of the other Apostles who where put to death for teaching Christ as the Messiah. Granted there are probably quit a few cases where someone might be willing to die for a lie, provided they do not know it is a lie? But the apostles, Paul included where supossed to have seen, and in most cases to have traveled with Jesus throughout his minestry, and after His resurection. These people would have KNOWN that they where lieing, if in fact they where. The number of people I can name off the top of my head that would be willing to die for something that they KNOW is a lie...(for something that doesn't implicate them in another crime)...frankly I can't think of one. What purpose is there in it? So that some potentate 3, 4, or 5 hundred years down the road can say, "give to the church, support the ministry?" Come on now, there are only two possibilities, either they where lieing, and knew that they where lieing, or they where telling the truth as best they could about what they saw. There really is no middle ground here.
At any rate, keep digging. 21 Yet these may ye eat of every flying creeping thing that goeth upon [all] four, which have legs above their feet, to leap withal upon the earth; 22 [Even] these of them ye may eat; the locust after his kind, and the bald locust after his kind, and the beetle after his kind, and the grasshopper after his kind
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Force Inactive Member |
...bump
Edited by tthzr3, : No reason given. Edited by tthzr3, : No reason given. Edited by tthzr3, : No reason given. Edited by tthzr3, : No reason given. Thank you
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imageinvisible Member (Idle past 5918 days) Posts: 132 From: Arlington, Texas, US Joined: |
they heard the sound but did not see anyone
saw the light, but they did not understand the voice All you have here is that his companions heard the sound but didn't understand the voice and they saw a light but did not see anyone. Sounds quite specific an acount to me. unless you have more.
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Force Inactive Member |
imageinvisible,
I am actually going to refute the idea that ACTS 9:3-9 contradicts Acts 22:6-9. I have recently realized that the information provided in those chapters and verses above is ambiguous. Thank you
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imageinvisible Member (Idle past 5918 days) Posts: 132 From: Arlington, Texas, US Joined: |
No. Thank You. ambiguous...equivocal, obscure, recondite, abstruse, vague, cryptic, enigmatic....yeah that fits.
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