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Author Topic:   Evidence for a recent flood
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 12029
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 5.9


(1)
Message 331 of 404 (643803)
12-12-2011 12:57 AM
Reply to: Message 330 by Portillo
12-11-2011 12:58 AM


In 1912, the Titanic sank. 1500 people went to the bottom of the ocean, 11,000 feet down. Many years later, someone went down with cameras and floodlights and found the ship. Broken in half and half a mile apart. They found thousands of pots, pans and other stuff scattered all over the ocean floor. But not 1 human, bone or skull was found. Why not? Because nothing that dies in the ocean is ever seen again. It is annihilated by scavengers. Not one fossil is formed in any ocean basin in the world today. Nature/Gods amazingly effective way of keeping the ocean basins from becoming garbage dumps.

Here is an account of a human skeleton recovered from the wreck of the Belle, lost at sea in 1686.

Oops, it forgot to vanish in accordance with "Nature/Gods amazingly effective way". Because it turns out that taphonomy works like taphonomists think it does and not how you think it does.

And the same is true on land. No fossil is being formed on land today. Hordes of millions of buffalo bisons roamed the western praires and when they died they didnt go down and become fossils. The flesh was removed by scavengers and the bones disintegrated and turned to dust. Not one fossil of these buffalos has ever been found. But if you start digging down into the western prairies, what do you find? Fossils. They got there by being smashed by masses of mud in a global catastrophe. Instantaneously smashed and preserved.

Take Fort Dobbs, for example (**), abandoned since the 1760s. There the bones of bison are found in association with Colonial-era porcelain and musket-balls. Seems they forgot to "turn to dust", because taphonomy works like taphonomists think it does and not how you think it does.

---

This is a good example of why you should get your information from people who know things instead of from creationists.

Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 330 by Portillo, posted 12-11-2011 12:58 AM Portillo has not yet responded

  
Pressie
Member
Posts: 718
From: Pretoria, SA
Joined: 06-18-2010
Member Rating: 1.8


Message 332 of 404 (643805)
12-12-2011 1:16 AM
Reply to: Message 330 by Portillo
12-11-2011 12:58 AM


quote:
But if you start digging down into the western prairies, what do you find? Fossils. They got there by being smashed by masses of mud in a global catastrophe.
How would fossils found in the western prairies indicate a global catastrophe called "The Flood?" Please explain.

Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 330 by Portillo, posted 12-11-2011 12:58 AM Portillo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 333 by Portillo, posted 02-15-2012 4:06 AM Pressie has responded

    
Portillo
Member (Idle past 438 days)
Posts: 258
Joined: 11-14-2010


Message 333 of 404 (652617)
02-15-2012 4:06 AM
Reply to: Message 332 by Pressie
12-12-2011 1:16 AM


quote:
How would fossils found in the western prairies indicate a global catastrophe called "The Flood?" Please explain.

Why arent fossils being formed anywhere in the world today? On land or water. If the fossil record is the record of life, why isnt the record continuing?

Edited by Portillo, : No reason given.


And the conspiracy was strong, for the people increased continually - 2 Samuel 15:12

This message is a reply to:
 Message 332 by Pressie, posted 12-12-2011 1:16 AM Pressie has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 334 by Panda, posted 02-15-2012 5:20 AM Portillo has not yet responded
 Message 335 by Percy, posted 02-15-2012 10:24 AM Portillo has not yet responded
 Message 336 by DrJones*, posted 02-15-2012 1:00 PM Portillo has not yet responded
 Message 337 by Pressie, posted 02-15-2012 10:46 PM Portillo has not yet responded
 Message 338 by anglagard, posted 02-15-2012 11:21 PM Portillo has responded

  
Panda
Member
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


(1)
Message 334 of 404 (652621)
02-15-2012 5:20 AM
Reply to: Message 333 by Portillo
02-15-2012 4:06 AM


Ok - let's work this out ...

First question:
How long does it take for a fossil to form?

Second question:
What is the minimum age of a fossil?

Third question:
How recently could a fossilised animal have lived?

Have a go at answering and then we can look at your questions again if the answers have not become apparent.

Edited by Panda, : No reason given.


If I were you
And I wish that I were you
All the things I'd do
To make myself turn blue

This message is a reply to:
 Message 333 by Portillo, posted 02-15-2012 4:06 AM Portillo has not yet responded

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 12803
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.8


(2)
Message 335 of 404 (652658)
02-15-2012 10:24 AM
Reply to: Message 333 by Portillo
02-15-2012 4:06 AM


Portillo writes:

Why arent fossils being formed anywhere in the world today? On land or water. If the fossil record is the record of life, why isnt the record continuing?

One of the earliest developed principles of geology is that the present is the key to the past. The same processes of erosion and sedimentation (and storms and earthquakes and volcanoes and subduction and uplift and so forth) that we observe today have been happening throughout time and are responsible for transforming our world from the way it was to the way it is.

Fossils are in the process of formation today in the same ways as they have formed throughout time.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 333 by Portillo, posted 02-15-2012 4:06 AM Portillo has not yet responded

    
DrJones*
Member
Posts: 1540
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 08-19-2004
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 336 of 404 (652683)
02-15-2012 1:00 PM
Reply to: Message 333 by Portillo
02-15-2012 4:06 AM


Why arent fossils being formed anywhere in the world today?

Where can I read your complete survey of the entire earth?

God separated the races and attempting to mix them is like attempting to mix water with diesel fuel.- Buzsaw Message 177

It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds
soon I discovered that this rock thing was true
Jerry Lee Lewis was the devil
Jesus was an architect previous to his career as a prophet
All of a sudden i found myself in love with the world
And so there was only one thing I could do
Was ding a ding dang my dang along ling long - Jesus Built my Hotrod Ministry
Live every week like it's Shark Week! - Tracey Jordan
Just a monkey in a long line of kings. - Matthew Good
If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist! - Get Your War On
*not an actual doctor


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Pressie
Member
Posts: 718
From: Pretoria, SA
Joined: 06-18-2010
Member Rating: 1.8


Message 337 of 404 (652761)
02-15-2012 10:46 PM
Reply to: Message 333 by Portillo
02-15-2012 4:06 AM


My question
quote:
How would fossils found in the western prairies indicate a global catastrophe called "The Flood?" Please explain.
The answer you gave was.
quote:
Why arent fossils being formed anywhere in the world today? On land or water. If the fossil record is the record of life, why isnt the record continuing?
Obviously dodging the question.

Remember, you stated that fossils in the western prairies indicate a global flood.

The question again: How would fossils found in the western prairies indicate a global catastrophe called "The Flood?" Please explain.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 333 by Portillo, posted 02-15-2012 4:06 AM Portillo has not yet responded

    
anglagard
Member
Posts: 2002
From: Big Spring, TX, USA
Joined: 03-18-2006
Member Rating: 6.1


(1)
Message 338 of 404 (652762)
02-15-2012 11:21 PM
Reply to: Message 333 by Portillo
02-15-2012 4:06 AM


La Brea Tarpits
Portillo writes:

Why arent fossils being formed anywhere in the world today?

Obviously you have never visited the La Brea tarpits in downtown LA.

Obviously you are unfamiliar with the process of mummification in dessicated environments.

Obviously you are unfamiliar with oxygen starved environments.

Obviously you are unfamiliar with the content of ocean sediments.

Your ignorance of the facts are obvious, would you like for me to replace that word with oblivious?

Don't lie again, be it intentional or unintentional. First time it can be passed on as ignorance, each time thereafter means you break a commandment.


Read not to contradict and confute, not to believe and take for granted, not to find talk and discourse, but to weigh and consider. - Francis Bacon

This message is a reply to:
 Message 333 by Portillo, posted 02-15-2012 4:06 AM Portillo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 339 by Boof, posted 02-15-2012 11:36 PM anglagard has not yet responded
 Message 340 by Portillo, posted 02-15-2012 11:56 PM anglagard has responded

    
Boof
Member (Idle past 36 days)
Posts: 68
From: Australia
Joined: 08-02-2010


Message 339 of 404 (652763)
02-15-2012 11:36 PM
Reply to: Message 338 by anglagard
02-15-2012 11:21 PM


Re: La Brea Tarpits
An even more recent example of fossilisation is the external mold fossils found in the ash that blanketed Pompeii. And IIRC there's some fossilised or partly fossilised trees from historically recent eruptions around Mt St Helens.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 338 by anglagard, posted 02-15-2012 11:21 PM anglagard has not yet responded

  
Portillo
Member (Idle past 438 days)
Posts: 258
Joined: 11-14-2010


Message 340 of 404 (652764)
02-15-2012 11:56 PM
Reply to: Message 338 by anglagard
02-15-2012 11:21 PM


Re: La Brea Tarpits
Don't lie again, be it intentional or unintentional. First time it can be passed on as ignorance, each time thereafter means you break a commandment.

Very few fossils are formed today and if they are its usually because of rapid burial and water. The point is that a flood creates perfect conditions for fossil formation.


And the conspiracy was strong, for the people increased continually - 2 Samuel 15:12

This message is a reply to:
 Message 338 by anglagard, posted 02-15-2012 11:21 PM anglagard has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 341 by Coyote, posted 02-16-2012 12:12 AM Portillo has responded
 Message 342 by anglagard, posted 02-16-2012 12:17 AM Portillo has responded
 Message 347 by Percy, posted 02-16-2012 8:40 AM Portillo has responded
 Message 348 by Dr Adequate, posted 02-16-2012 3:55 PM Portillo has not yet responded

  
Coyote
Member
Posts: 4522
Joined: 01-12-2008
Member Rating: 3.5


(1)
Message 341 of 404 (652766)
02-16-2012 12:12 AM
Reply to: Message 340 by Portillo
02-15-2012 11:56 PM


Fossil formation
Very few fossils are formed today and if they are its usually because of rapid burial and water.

It has been pointed out to you by several posters that there is no reason to claim few fossils are being formed today.

Nor is rapid burial needed. Most fossils formed are probably coming from sea shells sitting on the ocean floor being slowly covered with silt and perhaps clays. You don't recognize these as fossils because they haven't formed yet! But perhaps if you dig into the seabed a few meters you'll start to find older and older shells. If you go far enough, then you'll start to find fossils. No mystery there.

The point is that a flood creates perfect conditions for fossil formation.

Floods create completely different conditions. A flood will mix materials of different sizes, jumbling them all together and, in the case of large animals, probably rip them apart. The fossils I have seen are mostly in well-sorted sediments, being fine sands and silts.

Can you point to any major series of fossils that occurs in majorly jumbled sediments, which contain everything from sand and gravel to large boulders? (Caution: Fossils in boulders are not the same thing.)


Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 340 by Portillo, posted 02-15-2012 11:56 PM Portillo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 349 by Portillo, posted 02-16-2012 4:55 PM Coyote has responded

  
anglagard
Member
Posts: 2002
From: Big Spring, TX, USA
Joined: 03-18-2006
Member Rating: 6.1


(1)
Message 342 of 404 (652767)
02-16-2012 12:17 AM
Reply to: Message 340 by Portillo
02-15-2012 11:56 PM


Re: La Brea Tarpits
portillo writes:

Why arent fossils being formed anywhere in the world today?

Very few fossils are formed today

No contradiction there.

I should likely retract any accusation of dishonesty, now I think you are too mentally screwed up to be consistent (look up the term if you don't know what it means, there are online dictionaries) within an hour and therefore are not in violation of any commandment.

Unfortunately, there are no commandments against completely embarrassing oneself in an internet forum, even if the perpetrator can't even begin to understand why.

Edited by anglagard, : too not to, grammar and spelling uber alles

Edited by anglagard, : last sentence

Edited by anglagard, : add to last sentence


Read not to contradict and confute, not to believe and take for granted, not to find talk and discourse, but to weigh and consider. - Francis Bacon

This message is a reply to:
 Message 340 by Portillo, posted 02-15-2012 11:56 PM Portillo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 343 by Portillo, posted 02-16-2012 12:27 AM anglagard has responded

    
Portillo
Member (Idle past 438 days)
Posts: 258
Joined: 11-14-2010


Message 343 of 404 (652768)
02-16-2012 12:27 AM
Reply to: Message 342 by anglagard
02-16-2012 12:17 AM


Re: La Brea Tarpits
Your the one that takes this topic so seriously. Im just here for some friendly and fun debate. The fact that we are discussing the Genesis flood in 2012 is peaceful enough for me.

Edited by Portillo, : No reason given.


And the conspiracy was strong, for the people increased continually - 2 Samuel 15:12

This message is a reply to:
 Message 342 by anglagard, posted 02-16-2012 12:17 AM anglagard has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 344 by anglagard, posted 02-16-2012 12:40 AM Portillo has responded

  
anglagard
Member
Posts: 2002
From: Big Spring, TX, USA
Joined: 03-18-2006
Member Rating: 6.1


(3)
Message 344 of 404 (652769)
02-16-2012 12:40 AM
Reply to: Message 343 by Portillo
02-16-2012 12:27 AM


Re: La Brea Tarpits
portillo writes:

Your the one that takes this topic so seriously. Im just here for some friendly and fun debate. The fact that we are discussing the Genesis flood in 2012 is peaceful enough for me.

I take this topic seriously because anti-science forces infest the school system and indeed even my workplace in West Texas.

If one is against science, one is against democracy, liberty, a strong military, and most important - the economic health of the nation.

Yeah I care, it hits me right in the damn pocketbook for starters.

Admins, please forgive this off topic rant, but I feel compelled to respond.


Read not to contradict and confute, not to believe and take for granted, not to find talk and discourse, but to weigh and consider. - Francis Bacon

This message is a reply to:
 Message 343 by Portillo, posted 02-16-2012 12:27 AM Portillo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 345 by Portillo, posted 02-16-2012 12:49 AM anglagard has not yet responded

    
Portillo
Member (Idle past 438 days)
Posts: 258
Joined: 11-14-2010


Message 345 of 404 (652771)
02-16-2012 12:49 AM
Reply to: Message 344 by anglagard
02-16-2012 12:40 AM


Re: La Brea Tarpits
Sorry it makes your heart burn with rage. Im just here to have friendly debate.

And the conspiracy was strong, for the people increased continually - 2 Samuel 15:12

This message is a reply to:
 Message 344 by anglagard, posted 02-16-2012 12:40 AM anglagard has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
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