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Author Topic:   The Flood = many coincidences
shalamabobbi
Member (Idle past 150 days)
Posts: 396
Joined: 01-10-2009


Message 226 of 445 (579572)
09-05-2010 2:59 AM
Reply to: Message 223 by Architect-426
09-05-2010 12:05 AM


hula girls...
1) Movement. Or lack thereof.
8) Volcanism.

These two items bring up the matter of the formation of the Hawaiian Islands. The ancient natives of the islands were able to tell the difference in the ages of the islands and handed down their legends of Pele and his flight from Kauai to the Big Island.

quote:
the volcanoes of the Hawaiian chain... get progressively older and become more eroded the farther they travel beyond the hotspot. The oldest volcanic rocks on Kauai, the northwesternmost inhabited Hawaiian island, are about 5.5 million years old and are deeply eroded. By comparison, on the "Big Island" of Hawaii -- southeasternmost in the chain and presumably still positioned over the hotspot -- the oldest exposed rocks are less than 0.7 million years old and new volcanic rock is continually being formed.

source
http://pubs.usgs.gov/gip/dynamic/hotspots.html

The following link is an excellent short walk through and goes beyond just a consideration of the Hawaiian Islands to a brief discussion of the Hawaiian Ridge and Emperor Seamounts.

Edited by shalamabobbi, : punct


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Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 12839
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 2.2


(2)
Message 227 of 445 (579606)
09-05-2010 7:16 AM
Reply to: Message 223 by Architect-426
09-05-2010 12:05 AM


Re: Plate Tectonics Is Asinine In My Own Words.
1) Movement. Or lack thereof.

The movement of the continents can be measured directly by GPS.

2) Movement. Or lack thereof.

The movement of the continents can be measured directly by satellite laser ranging.

3) Movement. Or lack thereof.

The movement of the continents can be measured directly by Very Long Baseline Interferometry.

4) Energy. Or lack thereof.

The energy to power drift is produced by convection currents in the mantle --- ultimately by the fact that the Earth is hotter at greater depths. Do you deny the existence of this thermal energy?

5) Brittleness. The present state of surface rocks (they are no longer in their plastic form).

What about it?

6) Massive dessication/contraction. The present state of crustal formations.

What are you talking about?

7) Sedimentation. Movement of plates will not create sedimentary rocks. Period.

No-one ever said it did. Period.

8) Volcanism. The evidence of massive volcanism everywhere negates geological features being formed by irrational plate movement, which is nil.

There is not "evidence of massive volcanism everywhere"; and if there was, it would not prevent plate tectonics from also causing geological features.

9) The Mid-Ocean Ridges are not ridiculous spreading centers.

Direct measurements of the direction of motion at the transform faults along the ridges show that that's exactly what they are.

10) The plate tectonic theory is the Joke of Geology and is making Earth scientists look like a herd of dumb-asses sucking on a giant Plate Tectonic pacifier entertaining the preposterous idea that a continent was high-tailing it the wrong way down a one-way street and slammed into another continent...

Assertion is not argument.

Take any rock, sedimentary or igneous, and crush it, and they crumble.

That depends on the temperature and the confining pressure.

Here, for example, is what happens to marble cylinders under compression under different confining pressures. Note that brittle fracture is seen only at the lowest confining pressure: at higher confining pressures their behavior is plastic and ductile.

But again this is based on direct observation, and so you may find it less convincing than stuff that you've made up in your head.

Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Mr Jack
Member
Posts: 3482
From: Leicester, England
Joined: 07-14-2003


Message 228 of 445 (579610)
09-05-2010 7:49 AM
Reply to: Message 223 by Architect-426
09-05-2010 12:05 AM


PT and Volcanism
8) Volcanism. The evidence of massive volcanism everywhere negates geological features being formed by irrational plate movement, which is nil.

Dr. A has already picked apart most of your post, but I want to pick up on this particular gem. In fact, Volcanism does not occur "everywhere", it occurs, just like Earthquakes in particular places. Have a look at these maps:

Note how most volcanic and earthquake activity occurs along plate boundaries. But, wait, it gets better. The depth of earthquakes also varies at these boundaries, and they get deeper away from the edge along a slope following the line of the subducting plate!

Volcanism isn't evidence against plate tectonics, it's evidence for it (see hula girls... (Message 226) for another line of volcanic evidence for plate tectonics).


This message is a reply to:
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Malcolm
Member
Posts: 148
From: Scotland
Joined: 05-08-2006


Message 229 of 445 (579618)
09-05-2010 9:02 AM
Reply to: Message 223 by Architect-426
09-05-2010 12:05 AM


Re: Plate Tectonics Is Asinine In My Own Words.
Just to give an example of what Dr Adequate said about GPS monitoring of plate movement, look at the effects of the Chile earthquake which happened in February this year. GPS monitoring showed that Conception, the city nearest to the epicentre, was moved 10 feet to the west, and the countries capital, Santiago, was moved 11 inches. Even Buenos Aires was shifted an inch. You can read more here.

Edited by Malcolm, : No reason given.


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Architect-426
Member (Idle past 1089 days)
Posts: 76
From: NC, USA
Joined: 07-16-2008


(1)
Message 230 of 445 (579709)
09-05-2010 6:54 PM
Reply to: Message 227 by Dr Adequate
09-05-2010 7:16 AM


Compression at MOR's kills plate tectonics
Pay close attention to the low confining pressure in your compression test example (we perform these tests on every concrete batch to observe strength via failure). ***Note the fracture patterns.*** If the shape of the sample was planar, the fracture patterns would match those of the MORs (i.e. transform faults & ridges). Hence the MORs are not irrational spreading centers but indeed were formed via massive compressional forces, i.e., they were buckled. I am not the only one who has pointed out this fact as even non-creationists recognize this (I do not heed to any expanding-earth theories btw). Of course this true observation has fallen by the wayside because it certainly puts a giant monkey wrench in the ever so beloved, pucker-up and kiss it, plate tectonic theory.

Once this observable fact sinks into the cranium of those who have professed the geological MYTH of Continental Drift via plate tectonic sea-floor spreading, then it becomes obvious that the credibility of nearly the entire scientific community is in grave question. Therefore the politics of consensus agreement becomes the blinder that Earth science must place over their entire face to IGNORE the evidence that the sea-floor is not spreading nor active in this manner. It suffered major event compression and is now just sitting there after successfully duping earth scientists into base thinking of oh the sea-floor spreads and sucks itself back up

GPS and ground base measurements dont support continental drift (never mind these too can be off by hundreds of feet, and soils tend to creep). I dont negate that there is movement, yet this inch-worm step per year movement does not create geological features. Never has and never will. Now Earth science is left with the deposition process itself, which is no longer occurring on any macro scale.


This message is a reply to:
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jar
Member
Posts: 24776
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 231 of 445 (579710)
09-05-2010 7:02 PM
Reply to: Message 230 by Architect-426
09-05-2010 6:54 PM


Re: Compression at MOR's kills plate tectonics
I dont negate that there is movement, yet this inch-worm step per year movement does not create geological features.

Tell that to my insurance company cause they believed that it really was the earth moving that split my garage off from my house and opened the crack in the yard and placed half the yard about two feet higher then the rest of it.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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Coyote
Member
Posts: 4749
Joined: 01-12-2008
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 232 of 445 (579711)
09-05-2010 7:03 PM
Reply to: Message 230 by Architect-426
09-05-2010 6:54 PM


Re: Compression at MOR's kills plate tectonics
GPS and ground base measurements dont support continental drift (never mind these too can be off by hundreds of feet, and soils tend to creep). I dont negate that there is movement, yet this inch-worm step per year movement does not create geological features. Never has and never will. Now Earth science is left with the deposition process itself, which is no longer occurring on any macro scale.

Why are you clinging to these falsehoods?

Is this a part of your religious belief, necessary because you believe in a young earth and a recent global flood?

I can't imagine how or why, otherwise, you would be denying what is obvious to scientists all over the world.


Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
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Architect-426
Member (Idle past 1089 days)
Posts: 76
From: NC, USA
Joined: 07-16-2008


(1)
Message 233 of 445 (579718)
09-05-2010 7:18 PM
Reply to: Message 228 by Mr Jack
09-05-2010 7:49 AM


Re: Majar volcanism first, then "plate boundaries"
+++Dr. A has already picked apart most of your post,+++

No he didnt. He just stroked the plate tectonic peacock because it is what all Earth scientists are trained to do due to their dupeness of believing the diagrams. The theory is so engrained into them they cannot see past the irrational and illogical ideology that it is. Therefore it is the blind leading the blind.

+++Note how most volcanic and earthquake activity occurs along plate boundaries.+++

Not always the case. You will have to explain the massive volcanism in central Africa literally surrounding Victoria Lake far away from any subduction zone. Sure its a rift zone, but what opened up the rift to begin with? Looks to me like it blew up, big-time. Same goes for all of the massive basalt flows in the Sahara, India, North America, central S. America. Again, not even close to any alleged plate boundary of any kind. How the heck do you and everyone else who professes the PT myth reconcile these features? What about Valles Calderas? Opps, no plate boundary near there chap and you sure as hell didnt want to be within 500 miles of that bad boy. The Black Hills formation. Looks to me like a massive eroded volcano, of course it is with all of the igneous volcanic resurgence in the center. Not near any "PT boundary", that sucker just blew up in the middle of the plains. I'd say about a 700 mile distance might have been safe for that one.

+++But, wait, it gets better. The depth of earthquakes also varies at these boundaries, and they get deeper away from the edge along a slope following the line of the subducting plate!+++

Oh boy, the earth is sucking itself up! These alleged subduction zones have angled faults. What massive force dredged out these oceanic pits and created angled faults? Oh, and never mind the lack of ANY sediment build-up after sucking up the ocean floor for only 200 million years (MAX declared by science because this is the maximum age of the ocean crust, while continents are billions of years old). I suppose the plate tectonic tinker bell just made all the sedimentation disappear

Why is the Pacific ringed with subduction zones but does not have any Mid-Ocean Ridge MOMs to poop out and spread any ocean crust? Per the PT theory this has to occur, but WHERE is mummy? Please make something up to explain this anomaly of missing mummies

But wait... True observation of the Pacific Ocean topography reveals massive land wrecks and the island forming volcanism (including Hawaii) are the remnant "gurgling" of this massive explosive/subsidence event that obliterated what was once dry land. True observation reveals that there are approx. 50,000 volcanic "hot spots" in the Pacific. Play tectonics? Nope. A massive destructive explosive watery event.


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Architect-426
Member (Idle past 1089 days)
Posts: 76
From: NC, USA
Joined: 07-16-2008


(1)
Message 234 of 445 (579719)
09-05-2010 7:20 PM
Reply to: Message 229 by Malcolm
09-05-2010 9:02 AM


Re: Plate Tectonics Is Asinine In My Own Words.
Ah the Earth-moving catastrophic events which fly in the face of Plate Tectonics as well as evolution.

Yup, thats what happens when the earth does move, not a bloody thing gets built, yet an earthquake is plate tectonics to scientists. Earth moves = rocks and buildings crumble, people and animals run for their lives but blame it on plate tectonics because science likes it because of ebowution

Again, the nagging question to every Earth scientist is WHY is the Earth wrecked with so many faults, fissures and fossils? NOT plate tectonics continental bash n crash, but due to a global event that wrecked the crust, i.e. when the Earth literally vomited for 150 days during the Great Flood.


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shalamabobbi
Member (Idle past 150 days)
Posts: 396
Joined: 01-10-2009


Message 235 of 445 (579721)
09-05-2010 7:32 PM
Reply to: Message 230 by Architect-426
09-05-2010 6:54 PM


Re: Compression at MOR's kills plate tectonics
Once this observable fact sinks into the cranium of those who have professed the geological MYTH of Continental Drift via plate tectonic sea-floor spreading, then it becomes obvious that the credibility of nearly the entire scientific community is in grave question.

Is that how it works? Truly evolution has no preferred direction..
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Coyote
Member
Posts: 4749
Joined: 01-12-2008
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 236 of 445 (579722)
09-05-2010 7:33 PM
Reply to: Message 234 by Architect-426
09-05-2010 7:20 PM


Back to the "global" flood
...a global event that wrecked the crust, i.e. when the Earth literally vomited for 150 days during the Great Flood.

An event which the ancient Egyptians failed to notice or record.

They recorded the annual floods of the Nile, but missed a global flood. Hmmmm.

The purported global flood occurred at the end of the 5th Dynasty or at the beginning of the 6th Dynasty, but was not recorded!

(And they didn't go extinct either.)


Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
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Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3355
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 2.0


(1)
Message 237 of 445 (579723)
09-05-2010 7:33 PM
Reply to: Message 229 by Malcolm
09-05-2010 9:02 AM


Denying Plate Tectonics Is AsinineIn Darwin's Own Work
Architect-426 would be especially keen to know that Charles Darwin's direct observations of the February 20, 1835 earthquake in Chile contributed to geologists' ability to expect the later quake.

That argument is made here.

Remarkably, Darwin also rebutted Archtect-426's arguments 175 years before he made them, drawing brilliant conclusions from simple, "commonsense" observations.

Darwin also used the observations from that quake to help reach his conclusions about the great age of the earth, to explain how sea shells were found on mountaintops, and to speculate that the earth's crust floated on molten rock.

Here's a passage from CNN's report:

quote:
Darwin spent the next weeks investigating the effects of the earthquake. He found that rocks lined with recent marine shells were now elevated above the tide. The island of Santa Maria was raised an average of about 3 meters (9 feet).

Combining his own observations with those of many local people, Darwin attempted to reconstruct the event and to understand why it had occurred. He found that three volcanoes had erupted along the Chilean coast at about the same time as the earthquake.

Not only did he collect widespread evidence of the uplift of the coast during the earthquake, but traveling inland and into the mountains, he discovered a series of remains of marine shells -- proof that the shifting that had recently uplifted the coast by a small amount had occurred over and over in the recent geological past.

The experience convinced him that the great geologist Charles Lyell was right -- mountain chains were not created by sudden immense catastrophes, but grew almost imperceptibly, the product of thousands of successive uplifts over almost endless geological time.

Even more ambitiously, Darwin later came to connect earthquakes, volcanoes and vertical movements of the Earth's crust as the results of same great unknown subterranean phenomena. In an ambitious and important scientific paper published after the voyage, Darwin concluded that "this large portion of the earth's crust floats in a like manner on a sea of molten rock" and indeed that it was likely this was true of "the entire globe."


Charles "One Man Creationism Wrecking Crew" Darwin, as it turns out, was a remarkable geologist.

Edited by Omnivorous, : No reason given.

Edited by Omnivorous, : Realized I don't have to accept that ignorant subtitle.


Have you ever been to an American wedding? Where's the vodka? Where's the marinated herring?!
-Gogol Bordello
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Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 12839
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 2.2


(1)
Message 238 of 445 (579725)
09-05-2010 7:43 PM
Reply to: Message 230 by Architect-426
09-05-2010 6:54 PM


Re: Compression at MOR's kills plate tectonics
Pay close attention to the low confining pressure in your compression test example (we perform these tests on every concrete batch to observe strength via failure). ***Note the fracture patterns.*** If the shape of the sample was planar, the fracture patterns would match those of the MORs (i.e. transform faults & ridges). Hence the MORs are not irrational spreading centers but indeed were formed via massive compressional forces, i.e., they were buckled.

First of all I would point out that the Earth is not in fact planar.

Second, I should like to see your evidence. So far as I can see, you're claiming that if a sheet of rock is subjected to compression, it will form what looks like a mountain range (presumably, in a small sheet of rock, a really teensy-tiny mountain range) with what looks like a deep rift running down the middle, and that this mountain range will be displaced perpendicular to its axis along what look like transform faults (will they also behave like transform faults?)

So, have you got any evidence for this? Like someone doing it and getting those results? Please show me where this has been done, bearing in mind that things that only happen in your head aren't really real.

Oh, and what is the origin of this compressive force, please?

Oh, and how do you get round the fact that rocks will behave elastically at depth, as shown in the rightmost cylinder in the photograph I showed you? I've since checked the figures, and that's what happens at a mere 1.75 km down. Do you know how deep the mid-ocean rifts are?

Once this observable fact sinks into the cranium of those who have professed the geological MYTH of Continental Drift via plate tectonic sea-floor spreading, then it becomes obvious that the credibility of nearly the entire scientific community is in grave question. Therefore the politics of consensus agreement becomes the blinder that Earth science must place over their entire face to IGNORE the evidence that the sea-floor is not spreading nor active in this manner.

First, what evidence?

Second, if that was how science worked, then plate tectonics would never have got started in the first place. The consensus agreement was that there was no such thing as continental drift. Then when the evidence for it was produced, geologists admitted that they were wrong. And this did not, as it happened, call into question "the credibility of nearly the entire scientific community".

I dont negate that there is movement, yet this inch-worm step per year movement does not create geological features. Never has and never will.

You know how I explained to you that assertion isn't argument?

Well that hasn't changed since your last post.

---

Note for innocent bystanders. Maybe I should explain the deal with transform faults.

Consider the diagrams below. At the top we see a diagram of a lateral fault with a feature running across it (it's meant to be a road).

The lateral fault illustrated is called a left lateral fault. You can see that standing on either side of the fault and looking across it, the road appears displaced to the left. And if you stood on one side of the fault during an earthquake and looked across the fault, you would see the land on the other side of the fault moving to the left relative to you.

But when the idea of sea-floor spreading was proposed, it was realised that the transform faults would behave differently if they really were spreading centers. When the mid-ocean rift was displaced to the left, then someone looking across the fault during an earthquake would see the sea-floor on the other side moving to the right --- as turned out to be the case. The success of this startling testable prediction did a lot to swing geologists towards the plate tectonics model.

Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3355
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 2.0


Message 239 of 445 (579726)
09-05-2010 7:45 PM
Reply to: Message 234 by Architect-426
09-05-2010 7:20 PM


Hooey.
architect-426 writes:

WHY is the Earth wrecked with so many faults, fissures and fossils? NOT plate tectonics continental bash n crash, but due to a global event that wrecked the crust, i.e. when the Earth literally vomited for 150 days during the Great Flood.

Then why aren't the fossils found in one single great layer?

Instead, we find them in many well-defined strata with gradually changing fossil populations. Did the earth binge-and-purge daily for 150 days, and each day was Bible time where a day is an epoch?

It doesn't appear that one big puke can expain the evidence.


Have you ever been to an American wedding? Where's the vodka? Where's the marinated herring?!
-Gogol Bordello
This message is a reply to:
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Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 12839
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 2.2


(1)
Message 240 of 445 (579727)
09-05-2010 7:49 PM
Reply to: Message 234 by Architect-426
09-05-2010 7:20 PM


Re: Plate Tectonics Is Asinine In My Own Words.
Yup, thats what happens when the earth does move, not a bloody thing gets built ...

Uplift can be observed and measured.

Again, the nagging question to every Earth scientist is WHY is the Earth wrecked with so many faults, fissures and fossils?

Every Earth scientist knows the answer.

NOT plate tectonics continental bash n crash, but due to a global event that wrecked the crust, i.e. when the Earth literally vomited for 150 days during the Great Flood.

I'd ask you for evidence, but obviously that well is dry.

And I'd ask you for a model, only you're a creationist.


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