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Author Topic:   Department Of Homeland Security Inaction At the Top
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1395 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 16 of 297 (240350)
09-04-2005 7:42 AM
Reply to: Message 15 by Sylas
09-04-2005 4:08 AM


Re: Let's not forget the upcoming tragedies.
My immediate reaction was that they were comparing a tidal wave that was focused by a fjord-like valley (steep sides, narrowing to a fine point) with one generated in the middle of the ocean, where the wave would have to be radial and dissipate the energy with the square of the distance (even if it is just a semi-circle arc).
Take out the focusing effect and reduce the wave with distance and it would have to be a truly massive slide to make more of a wave than has been observed.

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
{{{Buddha walks off laughing with joy}}}

This message is a reply to:
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cavediver
Member (Idle past 3634 days)
Posts: 4129
From: UK
Joined: 06-16-2005


Message 17 of 297 (240374)
09-04-2005 11:31 AM
Reply to: Message 15 by Sylas
09-04-2005 4:08 AM


Re: Let's not forget the upcoming tragedies.
Spoil-sport... this is one of my favourite disaster scenarios
But thanks for the info.

This message is a reply to:
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Monk
Member (Idle past 3914 days)
Posts: 782
From: Kansas, USA
Joined: 02-25-2005


Message 18 of 297 (240387)
09-04-2005 1:06 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by jar
09-03-2005 11:18 AM


Re: Let's not forget the upcoming tragedies.
There will be a tsunami that will hit the East Coast of the US.
Bush will be responsible
It will wipe out most structures in Florida.
Bush did it again.
It will swamp the coast of Georgia and South Carolina for about 12 miles inland.
Bush again
It will devastate the Outer Banks region.
Bush Sr. this time
It will make Hampton Roads, Newport News look like Mississippi.
Gotta go with Jeb Bush on this one.
Delaware, New Jersey, New York and Pennsylvania will be severely damaged.
Barbara Bush, why weren’t you prepared?
There will be about 30 million refugees.
How could the Bush twins let this happen?
As we stand today we might get 24 hours warning but even that is unlikely. There will be a major eruption at Yellowstone.
W will be responsible
It will be the biggest explosion during recorded history. It will cut argriculture production by 25% minimum for at least several years.
Karl Rove will pull the strings for this one behind the scenes.
There will be a major earthquake along the California coast. At best there will be hundreds of thousands of refugees. At worst, the agricultural areas of California will be flooded by salt water and crop production may be ended permanently.
Arnold this time with help from Bush
These are but a few of the things that WILL happen. They are all overdue based on historical and geological data.
And no matter what happens, we know who it to blame.

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Replies to this message:
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1395 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 19 of 297 (240393)
09-04-2005 1:35 PM


Failing to plan is Planing to fail ...
Folks the absence of planning just gets worse. Consider "They've got to open the base" (click)
Sept. 3, 2005 | BATON ROUGE, La. -- I got on a bus with California Rep. Maxine Waters Saturday afternoon, not sure where we were going, just knowing we were headed to New Orleans to pick up Hurricane Katrina victims. Even as television news is showing pictures of people being rescued by military helicopters and chartered buses, local and national black leaders are seething at the mismanaged evacuation, as well as the haphazard way even the rescued people are being handled. So they've come up with their own plan: to load the remaining residents on buses they've chartered and bring them to England Air Force Base, a shuttered military installation in Alexandria, La.
"My soul wouldn't let me sit and watch this on TV," says Waters, who represents South Central Los Angeles. "I'm just shocked that people have been living for five days, and dying, on the streets of this country. So I came down here, and my friend Cleo Fields came up with this wonderful possibility."
That wonderful possibility, hatched by state Sen. Cleo Fields and the Louisiana Legislative Black Caucus, is to house the displaced residents at the Air Force base instead of shelters and sports stadiums like the Astrodome, many of which are full anyway. They haven't gotten permission to do that, but that's not stopping them. The black leaders say racism is behind both the late response to the emergency and the dispersal of rescued residents far away from New Orleans ...
So now we have junior senators coming up with ad hoc solutions that are better than anything the feds in general and the "professional" leaders in DHS and FEMA have yet proposed?
How come nobody thought of this before? Before the Astrodome, before the Superdome, before the hurricane?
Where is the leadership?

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
{{{Buddha walks off laughing with joy}}}

Replies to this message:
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Nighttrain
Member (Idle past 3984 days)
Posts: 1512
From: brisbane,australia
Joined: 06-08-2004


Message 20 of 297 (240442)
09-04-2005 9:51 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by RAZD
09-04-2005 1:35 PM


Re: Failing to plan is Planing to fail ...
Hi, Razd, in both threads, blame seems to be loaded on local and Federal authorities, but where is the citizen preparedness? Cyclone warnings on media here usually warn folk to stock up on water, dry food, batteries, torch, radio, etc. to cope till help arrives. Does that happen in danger areas in the States? Even a quickie Google will point you to many survival sites on the `net to prepare lists, purify water, how to cope with natural disasters. Are we so slack we have to lay back and let authorities do everything? Folks were surrounded by water and dying of thirst. Trapped in their homes with no available food. Surely survival starts with the individual?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by RAZD, posted 09-04-2005 1:35 PM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1395 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 21 of 297 (240450)
09-04-2005 10:11 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by Nighttrain
09-04-2005 9:51 PM


Re: Failing to plan is Planing to fail ...
Yes, my experience on the Gulf Coast (way before DHS however) was that radio and tv were broadcasting ways to prepare, secure your home, where to go to evacuate, what to take. Certainly you see this happening in the coverage of florida's hurricanes.
The problem you have is that there are always people who want to stay and people who have to stay (cannot move or have jobs to do) -- and the US is kind of based on personal freedom -- so there will alway be some to go back for, if they are still {there\living}
Secondary problem is that this usually drives {overbuying\shortages} of necessities, so the first few buy up more than they need and the last ones get empty shelves.
In fact the second DHS webpage that I linked talked about this kind of personal preparedness (albeit with no link to local or federal type programs).
Surely survival starts with the individual?
Individual survival does. Social animals can be expected to work together to overcome obstacles: bison forming circles with the young at the center to protect them from wolves.
Folks were surrounded by water and dying of thirst.
Perhaps they were lulled into a false sense of security, that it would blow over, and that the {locals\feds} would be there the next day to start picking up the pieces, as they had in florida and other cases.
in both threads, blame seems to be loaded on local and Federal authorities, but where is the citizen preparedness?
For myself the question is not one of preparedness so much as management of the situation that I found to be so lacking.
and yes, anyone that had an opportunity to get out and didn't gets no sympathy, imho, unless they stayed to help those that couldn't leave (hospitals etc).

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
{{{Buddha walks off laughing with joy}}}

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arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1334 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 22 of 297 (240453)
09-04-2005 10:23 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by RAZD
09-03-2005 9:45 PM


Re: Let's not forget the upcoming tragedies.
well you do know that {ATLANTIS} is supposed to be just off Cuba, right?
the bimini roads bs? i don't believe that for a second.

אָרַח

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1334 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 23 of 297 (240456)
09-04-2005 10:29 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by Monk
09-04-2005 1:06 PM


it's not funny
Bush will be responsible
you can make jokes all you want. but seeing as how i live in florida, within walking distance of the coast, i don't find this very funny at all.
would bush be responsible? yes, partly. he would.
the department of homeland security is supposed to prepare and plan for these things. they are obviously not. we were totally unprepared for frances and jean, LA was totally unprepared for katrina. and we would be UTTERLY unprepared for something like this.
the dhs is simply not doing their job very effectively. they are not planning ahead. they're not even reacting quickly.

אָרַח

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Replies to this message:
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jar
Member (Idle past 384 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 24 of 297 (240457)
09-04-2005 10:33 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by arachnophilia
09-04-2005 10:29 PM


Re: it's not funny
The first step is to admit that there is a possibility of such things happening. It is the same thing with Global Warming. As long as we deny it as reality, it can't hurt us. When that fails, claim that it's a natural cycle.
Exactly how something that's a natural cycle is less harmful than if it is human caused I'm not quite sure. And exactly why not preparing for it is the right response if it is natural, I also have trouble understanding.
But then I'm old and slow so it's probably reasonable that I don't understand it.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1395 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 25 of 297 (240458)
09-04-2005 10:34 PM
Reply to: Message 22 by arachnophilia
09-04-2005 10:23 PM


Re: Let's not forget the upcoming tragedies.
all one has to do is google {atlantis cuba} and you can see by the volume of websites that there must be something to it
I remembered it more as the version
"7.7 square mile area 2200 feet below the sea's surface off the western tip of Cuba."
that puts is closer to the yucatan

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
{{{Buddha walks off laughing with joy}}}

This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by arachnophilia, posted 09-04-2005 10:23 PM arachnophilia has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 27 by arachnophilia, posted 09-04-2005 10:48 PM RAZD has replied

arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1334 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 26 of 297 (240465)
09-04-2005 10:47 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by jar
09-04-2005 10:33 PM


Re: it's not funny
The first step is to admit that there is a possibility of such things happening. It is the same thing with Global Warming. As long as we deny it as reality, it can't hurt us. When that fails, claim that it's a natural cycle.
but, you see, it IS a natural cycle. that shouldn't help their case -- that means these things are PREDICTABLE. and they are.

אָרַח

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arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1334 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 27 of 297 (240466)
09-04-2005 10:48 PM
Reply to: Message 25 by RAZD
09-04-2005 10:34 PM


Re: Let's not forget the upcoming tragedies.
it's still stupid.
atlantis was an allegory for athens.

אָרַח

This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by RAZD, posted 09-04-2005 10:34 PM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
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nwr
Member
Posts: 6408
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 4.2


Message 28 of 297 (240467)
09-04-2005 10:49 PM


While we are in the blame game, lets put some of the blame on the conservatives. They have dominated government since 1980.
The conservatives wanted to reduce the size of government. Well now we see what happens when you reduce it too much.
The conservatives have also been pushing laissez faire economics. It has been tried in the past. But those who don't learn from the mistakes of history are destined to repeat them. In a world economy based on laissez faire principles, China and India will be the big winners. The U.S.A. will be the biggest loser.

RAZD
Member (Idle past 1395 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 29 of 297 (240468)
09-04-2005 10:58 PM
Reply to: Message 27 by arachnophilia
09-04-2005 10:48 PM


Re: Let's not forget the upcoming tragedies.
But it sure displays the willingness of people to believe the most uncredible things.
There is also one greek town that was sunk by earthquake and that may have been the origin, if I remember correctly.

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.

This message is a reply to:
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jar
Member (Idle past 384 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 30 of 297 (240470)
09-04-2005 11:07 PM


Screw the blame.
Let's not waste time worrying about who did what wrong, let's start thinking about how to do it right next time.
Investigating to determine blame is stupid, irresponsible and a waste of time, energy and resources. We need to start planning how to make sure we will be ready next time.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Replies to this message:
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