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Author Topic:   What do the victims have to do with it?
cavediver
Member
Posts: 4129
From: UK
Joined: 06-16-2005


Message 1 of 48 (636026)
10-03-2011 6:39 PM


Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito have just had their convictions overturned after serving four years in jail for the murder of Meredith Kercher. Thank Dog for that given the apparent dubious quality of the evidence and ridiculous dependence on circumstantial evidence (how much "circumstantial" equals one "beyond reasonable doubt"??? - topic for another thread.)

Anyway, what I want to know is WHAT THE HELL WERE THE KERCHERS DOING IN COURT??? Apparently they had travelled all day from the UK just to be present at the verdict.

Were they just sufficiently interested in this news-worthy event that they fancied a ringside seat?

Were they hoping against hope that, irrespective of due-process and their respective guilt or otherwise, Knox and Sollecito would spend the rest of their lives (or large fraction there-of) behind bars?

Were they desperate that the unfortunate pair should see true justice and be freed so that they could celebrate alongside them?

Or were they, just like every other damn victim's family in the Western world, merely pawns of the fucked-up media?


Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by crashfrog, posted 10-03-2011 7:16 PM cavediver has not yet responded
 Message 4 by nwr, posted 10-03-2011 10:01 PM cavediver has not yet responded
 Message 5 by caffeine, posted 10-04-2011 3:44 AM cavediver has not yet responded
 Message 8 by Catholic Scientist, posted 10-05-2011 10:11 AM cavediver has not yet responded

  
crashfrog
Inactive Member


Message 2 of 48 (636036)
10-03-2011 7:16 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by cavediver
10-03-2011 6:39 PM


They may have been asked to attend by the Italian court or by the prosecution? Or perhaps even by the defense.

I suspect pawns, more than anything else. While you would expect the family of a victim to be "out for blood", and perhaps understandably less concerned that it's the right blood, in practice this seems to be relatively rare; most of the families seem to understand that it's important to get the right guy, they object when their plight is misused to further injustice, and relatively few families of murder victims express a desire to see the perpetrator executed. Most people have internalized the message that vengeance won't make them feel better. (Which is too bad, because the emerging research is that vengeance actually does make you feel better, a lot better; it's just that what the government does isn't vengeance, so criminal punishment doesn't seem to have that effect.)


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Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 12028
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 5.9


Message 3 of 48 (636080)
10-03-2011 9:41 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by crashfrog
10-03-2011 7:16 PM


Which is too bad, because the emerging research is that vengeance actually does make you feel better ...

I knew it! And as for the fools who told me different, I shall make them suffer!

Er ... can I see some of this research, please?


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nwr
Member
Posts: 5107
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 4.8


Message 4 of 48 (636084)
10-03-2011 10:01 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by cavediver
10-03-2011 6:39 PM


Anyway, what I want to know is WHAT THE HELL WERE THE KERCHERS DOING IN COURT??? Apparently they had travelled all day from the UK just to be present at the verdict.

It is probably psychology (emotions).

I have seen it too many times. The victim's family feels vindicated when there is a conviction. The victim's family is terribly upset if the conviction is thrown out, even though the evidence might be overwhelming that the original conviction was a gross miscarriage of justice.

There are occasional cases where the victim's family recognizes the problem and actually works to have the conviction thrown out. But those seem to be rarer than the other kind.


Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity

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caffeine
Member
Posts: 872
From: Prague, Czech Republic
Joined: 10-22-2008


Message 5 of 48 (636113)
10-04-2011 3:44 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by cavediver
10-03-2011 6:39 PM


Doesn't it seem perfectly reasonable to take an interest in trials surrounding your child's murder? I understand their stake a lot better than everybody else in the world who seems to be captivated by the whole affair for no clear or apparent reason.
This message is a reply to:
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Aware Wolf
Member
Posts: 154
From: New Hampshire, USA
Joined: 02-13-2009


Message 6 of 48 (636132)
10-04-2011 8:18 AM
Reply to: Message 5 by caffeine
10-04-2011 3:44 AM


for no clear or apparent reason

Amanda Knox is attractive.


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Panda
Member
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 7 of 48 (636138)
10-04-2011 10:07 AM
Reply to: Message 6 by Aware Wolf
10-04-2011 8:18 AM


Aware Wolf writes:

Amanda Knox is attractive.


...and her family hired a PR company.

Always remember: QUIDQUID LATINE DICTUM SIT ALTUM VIDITUR

Science flies you into space; religion flies you into buildings.


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Catholic Scientist
Member
Posts: 8978
From: near St. Louis
Joined: 01-27-2005
Member Rating: 4.9


(1)
Message 8 of 48 (636276)
10-05-2011 10:11 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by cavediver
10-03-2011 6:39 PM


Hefty Cost of Freedon
I just ran across this news story

http://www.cbsnews.com/...10/05/earlyshow/main20115856.shtml

quote:
Knox's first challenge will be repaying the more than $1 million in legal debts her family piled up in the past two years.

Her parents each took out second mortgages and drained retirement accounts to pay for her lawyers. Elizabeth Huff, Knox's grandmother, took out a $250,000 loan to help pay bills, a burden she welcomed.


Holy shit that sucks. All that debt and she was innocent. That's not fair at all.


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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bluescat48
Member (Idle past 467 days)
Posts: 2347
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2007


Message 9 of 48 (636277)
10-05-2011 10:25 AM
Reply to: Message 8 by Catholic Scientist
10-05-2011 10:11 AM


Re: Hefty Cost of Freedon
Catholic Scientist writes:

Holy shit that sucks. All that debt and she was innocent. That's not fair at all.

I fully agree.

Edited by bluescat48, : No reason given.


There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002

Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969

Since Evolution is only ~90% correct it should be thrown out and replaced by Creation which has even a lower % of correctness. W T Young, 2008


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Artemis Entreri 
Suspended Member (Idle past 506 days)
Posts: 1194
From: Northern Virginia
Joined: 07-08-2008


Message 10 of 48 (636300)
10-05-2011 1:15 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by Catholic Scientist
10-05-2011 10:11 AM


Re: Hefty Cost of Freedon
Anti-Americanism runs so deep, that Europeans will strike against us without evidence, it makes them feel better to take us down one innocent at a time. I'll have to remove Italy from the places to visit list.
This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Catholic Scientist
Member
Posts: 8978
From: near St. Louis
Joined: 01-27-2005
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 11 of 48 (636308)
10-05-2011 1:47 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by Artemis Entreri
10-05-2011 1:15 PM


Re: Hefty Cost of Freedon
Anti-Americanism runs so deep, that Europeans will strike against us without evidence, it makes them feel better to take us down one innocent at a time.

I'll have to remove Italy from the places to visit list.

I don't have the link handy, but a different news article I was reading yesterday quoted her saying that she hoped to visit Italy again in the future

Fuck that! I wouldn't if I was her...


This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by Artemis Entreri, posted 10-05-2011 1:15 PM Artemis Entreri has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 12 by Artemis Entreri, posted 10-05-2011 2:01 PM Catholic Scientist has responded
 Message 18 by caffeine, posted 10-06-2011 4:07 AM Catholic Scientist has responded

  
Artemis Entreri 
Suspended Member (Idle past 506 days)
Posts: 1194
From: Northern Virginia
Joined: 07-08-2008


Message 12 of 48 (636310)
10-05-2011 2:01 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by Catholic Scientist
10-05-2011 1:47 PM


Re: Hefty Cost of Freedon
This case has been about Anti-Americanism from the start.

I don't have the link handy, but a different news article I was reading yesterday quoted her saying that she hoped to visit Italy again in the future

Fuck that! I wouldn't if I was her...

no shit. I would like to visit Vatican City, so I would have to go to Rome, and thus go to Italy, but I would just do what I did last time and tell everyone I am from Canada (they can't tell the difference).


This message is a reply to:
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Catholic Scientist
Member
Posts: 8978
From: near St. Louis
Joined: 01-27-2005
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 13 of 48 (636312)
10-05-2011 2:06 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by Artemis Entreri
10-05-2011 2:01 PM


Re: Hefty Cost of Freedon
This case has been about Anti-Americanism from the start.

How do you know? I've just came in at the end, I hadn't even heard about it until I saw news of the appeal.

...and tell everyone I am from Canada (they can't tell the difference).


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dronester
Member
Posts: 1083
From: usa
Joined: 11-19-2008
Member Rating: 4.3


Message 14 of 48 (636319)
10-05-2011 4:06 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by Artemis Entreri
10-05-2011 1:15 PM


Parla Italiano?
I'm going to Italy Nov 2 thru Nov 11. Anybody know the Italian phrase for: "why am I being arrested?"

(Oh well, if it's an Italian prison, the food should be good)


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1.61803
Member
Posts: 2191
From: Lone Star State USA
Joined: 02-19-2004
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 15 of 48 (636320)
10-05-2011 4:11 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by dronester
10-05-2011 4:06 PM


Re: Parla Italiano?
I have been to Rome and can say first hand my sphincter tone goes up a notch when the polizia are eyeing me and thumbing they're berrettas.ok:
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