Creation as presented in Genesis chapters 1 and 2

Not the timeline i'm looking for. I'll have to do some internet surfing. I remember a date of all the age of the dawn of "time" of the bible translated into roughly 4 million years. This would be in accordance to geographical data of mankind in the fossil records if true.That would be significant to me as far as the bible being a record of God and his relation with man, and not the bibles creation story an actual timeline or in depth explanation of how God created. Instead that creation as a story in its most basic form to be the start of revelations of the knowledge of God. For i believe, that there is a purpose for even man, and that the purpose of man starts in the earth we were created from, for the glory of God to feed or supply or support a greater objective than to build a large house and have kids. The path to discovery may be long and perhapts even futile. But i am resolved to live out my purpose for God and his glory.The truth is out there. I propose to find it. I start college in August. i'll have to send you my new e-mail =)Edited in:
That would place God's action of makeing man in his image in the neolithic period. If the timeline is trustworthy. But wether it is or is not, creation depicted in the proper order in such an age is significant.Edited by tesla, : research and comment added.

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keep your mind from this way of enquiry, for never will you show that not-being is
~parmenides

Hi Peg, What does the different uses of yom have to do with the end of a light period at evening and the end of a dark period at the beginning of light being a day as declared by God? The reason you have evening is because a light period has come to an end.The only reason for having a morning is the end of a dark period. Actually evening is the period between the light period and the dark period. I know no such thing.I know the earth was created in Genesis 1:1I know there had to be light to grow all the vegetation we pump out of the ground in the form of natural gas, and oil and the coal we dig up.I know that in Genesis 1:2 it was evening time.I know that to have an evening you must have the end of a light period.I know according to the original texts that the earth had become uninhabitable in Genesis 1:2. There can be no evening without the ending of a light period. It was in the evening God said "let there be light" then He divided that light from the darkness and when the light reappeared the following morning that concluded the first day. Well at least there is one thing we can agree on.I agree that the period of darkness we find at Genesis 1:2 is of an undetermined period of time.However that evening had to follow a period of light or it could not be called evening. It would have just been called night.Will you agree that if there was a light period of an undeterminable amount of time that there would have been ample time for all the fossils we have found and for the production of all the vegetation that produced all the natural gas, oil, and coal that has been formed.All this happening without a conflict with the observed evidence that science has produced.The day age theory you hold is not compatible with the scientific evidence we have.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

just as there can be no morning without the end of an evening.Considering genesis first says there was evening, why do you assume the morning must have come first?How do you know that evening didnt come before the morning? And if the morning came first, then it would imply that the light was always there, but the fact is that there was darkness before their was light so the evening must have been first.this is why i dont believe the 'evening and morning' is to be taken literally.

Hi Peg, Well if Genesis 1:1 was not there I could agree with you.But Genesis 1:1 is there that means the heaven and the earth had been created prior to Genesis 1:2.Do you want me to believe that God, the angels, and devil wandered around in darkness from the beginning until Genesis 1:3. In the new heaven and earth God will give the light.What makes you think that God did not provide light in Genesis 1:1? You believe it because it fits your worldview. Genesis does not support your assertion neither does science.Do you have any answers to the sentences that ended in a question mark.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

im really not sure what you mean by thatI've never heard the view that the spirits dwell in our physical universe, so if thats what you mean, i have no idea how to respond. I cant imagine how our physical universe would have any bearing on the realm in which they dwell in. There is plenty of phyical light in the universe, but God does not reside in the physical universe.
Genesis is talking about the planet....a planet that was in darkness
Gen 1:2 2Now the earth proved to be formless and waste and there was darkness upon the surface of [the] watery deepGod was not dwelling on the earth was he?

Hi Peg, You have never heard that the devil, satan is the God of this world. Who offered the kingdom to Jesus if He would bow and worship him. The Greek word transliterated synistmi means to put together.So the universe is held together by he power of Jesus Christ. It is not held together by dark matter but an energy force that man does not understand nor will man find Him. If they do find the energy that holds the universe together they will have found Jesus. The Holy Spirit indwells every born again child of the King.Jesus holds the universe together by keeping everything in place.How can either do their job if they don't reside in the physicl universe? I agree that Genesis 1:2 is talking about a planet that is covered with water and in darkness.The question is how did it get in darkness when God is light?Your answer is that it was that way for billions of years as God created it as found in Genesis 1:2.But if it had existed in darkness all that time why do we find fossils that are billions of years old? How did the vegetation grow that was required to produce the natural gas, oil, and coal we use as energy today?If Genesis 1:2 is interperted correctly there is no problem as it would say "But the earth came to be empty and desolate."That would explain why the period of time God declared the first day was only 12 hours long, as it lasted from evening until morning.If Genesis 1:1 took place in the extended light portion of that day that would give a complete day. Composed of a light period and a dark period as all the the other 6 days recorded in Genesis was. God is all seeing and all knowing. To do that He must be everywhere all the time.If He is not on earth how does He see and know? How does the Holy Spirit indwell those who are born again?God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

yes i have, but not during the time the earth was being created is what i meant.
You asked why would they have been dwelling in darkness....however, the darkness was only in relation to the earth as genesis says "now the earth proved to be formless and void and there was darkness upon its surface" Well I agree that its by God's power that the universe is held together, but i dont believe he or his angels are dwelling in it if you know what i mean.I believe the realm they dwell in is a different realm to our physical realm...we could call it a different dimension. God can send his holy spirit, which is his active force/power, much like a power station can send the energy it creates hundreds or thousands of miles away...he doesnt have to be here to do it.But just on that point of God residing in the physical universe, no matter how high up into the heavens you fly, or how far you travel into space, you wont see him or any other spirit person....why not? to your first question, the earth was created along with the universe including all the other planets which means that it must have been here for as long as mars or venus or jupiter or pluto....it existed as a lifeless planet just like them UNTIL God began to work on it. This would explain the age that scientists come up with.The fossils that we find would have come from the animals that God created in the 5th & 6th periods. The fact that dinosaurs existed millions of years ago just shows that these 'days' were not literal days but 'ages' or 'eons' of time. The remnents of those animals are the coal/oil and gas that we find in the earth. but gen 1:1 says that 'in the beginning God created the heavens and the earth' thus showing that the earth was created along with the rest of the heavenly bodies. No one can say how long it existed for before gen 1:2 comes into play. He certainly is all seeing and all knowing, but he does not have to physically be here on earth to see and hear. If he was here on earth, we would not survive his presence....he even said to Moses "No man may see me and yet live"Its his power that prevents him from dwelling here on earth. The way that he sees and hears all is by viewing us from his own dwelling place...and he sends out his holy spirit to whereever he needs to in order to accomplish things.

Hi Peg, Well the heaven and the earth was created in the beginning whenever that was. I agree there was darkness on the surface of the earth in Genesis 1:2.That does not mean there was darkness on the earth in Genesis 1:1.Science tell us that there was several years of darkness on the earth when the Cretaceous-Tertiary extinction event happened, 65 million years ago.It was caused by a massive asteroid . SourceI did state in the OP that the KJV, LXX and Hebrew text would be the final authority for this thread. I did not include what Peg believes.You can believe anything you want. If the Holy Spirit is God's Spirit it is God, and He dwells in me. Until they take on a human form or they are revealed to you they can be 2 inches from your face and you would not see them. Do you have scripture to support such an assertion? Or is that just another of those things Peg believes? Since God said a light period and a dark period constituted a day the only way you can get your millions of years is if the earth was spinning a lot slower at that time. In fact it would almost have to be standing still.If it was going that slow then when did God speed it up to faster than it is spinning today as it is slowing down now? The fact that dinosaurs were on the earth millions of years ago means there was light on the earth millions of years ago nothing about your extra long day's and extra long nights.But since half of the earth is dark all the time how would anything grow or survive the long night's as the night would be millions of years long?And for your information the coal/oil, and natural gas come from compressed vegetation. And according to Peg existed in darkness. Jesus said: "he that hath seen me hath seen the Father". I know you have a real problem with that. God took on the form of a man we call Jesus and came down to earth, lived and died on the cross to pay our sin debt.So God has lived on earth in the form of a man and now dwells on earth in the form of the Holy Spirit.Now can we narrow this down to the OP?In the OP I said: "In this thread I will affirm that there are 2 creations presented in Genesis chapter 1 and 2."In Message 10 I asked:1. What does the length of a piece of string have to do with how long it is from morning to evening and then evening to morning?2. God said the end of the first light period and the end of the first dark period was the first day.Did Moses not know what he was talking about?Did God lie to Moses?In Message 17 I asked:1. What does the different uses of yom have to do with the end of a light period at evening and the end of a dark period at the beginning of light being a day as declared by God?2. What makes you think that God did not provide light in Genesis 1:1?3. The Holy Spirit indwells every born again child of the King.Jesus holds the universe together by keeping everything in place.How can either do their job if they don't reside in the physical universe?If I am going to learn what you believe and why I need information that you neglect to give. If you make an assertion and I ask for an explanation of that assertion and you don't give it what have we accomplished? Other than wasting a lot of time.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

yes i agree, which is why i have no problem with the earth being millions/billions of years old. so that means that we shoudl be able to go up into the heavens/space and see God dwelliing up there.I dont think i've heard of any astronauts returning to earth with news of seeing God up there....unless i've been living under a rock lol. You seem to already believe this for you said in your first comment on msg 23 "Well the heaven and the earth was created in the beginning whenever that was."whenever that was is exactly right...when did God create the sun or moon or planets or solar system or galaxy??? Apparently he created them in the 'beginning' along with the earth as part of that 'beginning'
Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens (our sun/solar system/galaxy) and the earth. perhaps if you take yom literally, yes it would have been moving pretty slowbut we dont take it literally and genesis does not say that it must be literal. there are more indications that it is figurative for the reason that the 7th day has still not come to an end. 1. The different uses of Yom shows that a yom/day could be any length of time. A yom has been used to identify the lifetime of a person in the bible, and that lifetime has been broken up into the 'twilight' and 'dawn' of the persons life.2. Genesis 1:1 is not discussing the subject of light from God. Its an opening remark to the account of the physical creation. What sort of light are you talking about?3. I beleive that the holy spirit is upon all born again christians, however i am not a born again christian so it doesnt dwell on me as a permanent gift because i have not been chosen to rule as a king and priest with Christ in heaven. I deeply respect those who have been chosen.

Hi Peg, I said you could believe anything you wanted to believe.I did not say because you believe it that it would come to be a fact. Let me get this straight.The entire solar system was created in Genesis 1:1. I agree.That would mean that they existed in Genesis 1:2.That means there would be light prior to Genesis 1:2.Why was not the light shining at Genesis 1:2?Could it be that evening had come or that something had happened to obscure the sun from the earth? Well God took yom in Genesis chapter 1 literally as He called a light period and a dark period, as the first day, second day, third day, fourth day, fifth day, and sixth day I find no mention of the evening and morning of the seventh day. The reference to the seventh day says God had ceased His creative work and did no work on the seventh day.Nowhere does it say that the evening of the seventh day did not come and the morning of the eighth day which would have been our first day of the week Sunday.Light periods and dark periods determined by the rotation of the earth in reference to the sun have continued from the first day until the present time. At no time has the rotation of the earth changed. There have been two instances where God cause a light period to be extended for Joshua. There was one time the shadow of the sundial was made to run backwards but the rotation of the earth was not effected.So what uses of yom are you trying to use to say it can be long periods of time?If you are using a day is the same as a thousand years with the Lord and a thousand years the same as a day to God you are barking up the wrong tree.God is not a creature of time and is not effected by time. You could say eternity is the same as a day and a day the same as eternity to God as God has no past or future. He only has an eternal now. Yom is translated day or days 2008 times. Each of these refer to a specific day or number of days of a 24 hour period.Where is yom used to identify the lifetime of a person that it did not say in the days of?Twilight appears 9 times in the OT and none mention the lifetime of a person. They all refer to the time between sundown and darkness.Dawn does not appear in the OT but does appear 2 times in the NT. Each time it is referring to the time when the darkness begins to disappear and light appears.Peg where do you get this stuff from? The kind of light that would be necessary for the earth that had been created to be inhabited as Isaiah tells us. I am sorry to hear you do not have the Holy Spirit to lead you and guide you in all truth. If you have not been born again how do you expect to understand spiritual things?Paul says you are trying to understand the things of God while you are still a natural person which is an impossibility.That would explain your confusion of what the Bible says and means.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

You sure about that?

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WASHINGTON, DC — Despite new repairs to the Hubble Telescope, NASA refuses to release old photos or take new ones of Heaven!

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In 1994, a researcher was smuggled one top-secret photo the Hubble Space Telescope had taken of what is presumed to be Heaven.

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source

Still hanging on to the yom shtick. Given our stroll through symbolism, I'm surprised you don't see it in Genesis 1. Popped right out at me. That's probably because I feel Genesis 1 was written by a priestly writer who wrote after the collapse of the Northern Kingdom. So I searched and found: Introduction to Covenant CreationApocalyptic symbolism uses collapsing-universe language to describe God's judgments.Look at Genesis 1:1: In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.What did we learn the phrase "heavens and earth" symbolized? Religious/political authorities and the nation they governed. I've mentioned before that the seven day lineup was a setup for the sabbath rule. Same writer.Notice the change when we get to the A&E story. Now the switch when the older J story begins. Remember I told you that "these are the generations" refers to what follows. If we apply the symbolism, then the Redactor was saying that the following texts would tell about the generations of the Hebrew nation. The phrase isn't the same and carries no symbolism that I've found so far.The Priestly writer lived in an apocalyptic time.A very different and interesting view of Genesis 1. From this perspective the creation story isn't about the planet, but a specific group of people. IMO, most creation stories are about the individual group and not so much the planet.Just a twist to the same old argument.

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Scripture is like Newton’s third law of motionfor every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.
In other words, for every biblical directive that exists, there is another scriptural mandate challenging it.
-- Carlene Cross in The Bible and Newton’s Third Law of Motion

+1
(Hope I'm not trolling here ...)"Evening and morning" seem critical event-series ... and respected by the law of Moses (and some Jewish sects today) ... they are "holy" "feasts" and, I suppose, invoke 'heavily' upon the 6 days of 'creation'. (I say 'creation' because 'designing', 'forming', 'lighting', 'clock-devices', etc. also took place during the 6 'days' ('evenings and mornings').But "evening and morning" seem scripturally vague, IMHO ... as human minds cannot really comprehend 'time', 'light', 'design'. "Evening and morning" semantics themselves oft evolve scripturally (not the ToE).Diurnal clocks seem non-existent until the 4th day:Likewise: a "month" in the closing 22nd chapter of the book of Revelation 'requires' no "sun" nor "night":Rev 22:2-5 ... yielded her fruit every month: ... And there shall be no night there ... neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light ...In sum (IOWs):1) Creation-design events seem utterly open to wide viewpoints ... but they seem difficult (perhaps impossible) to measure via diurnal clocks and radiometric dating.2) Genesis 1-2 are open to wide viewpoints ... and may retain scriptural validity/integrity.3) Moses, Daniel, Ezekial, etc., and, Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John seem to have had different viewpoints on "evening and morning" ... even the hours of our Lord's crucifiction, death, burial, and resurrection: "3 days/nights", "3rd day", etc.4) Many "evening-morning" models scientifically 'fit' your/my puny "evening and morning" schemes, IIRC.... Its just that the obsolete clocks we currently employ may require replacements, re-booting, and/or re-calibration ... after God 'acts'.

Hi Philip, Where do you get 6 days of creation from? The universe was created in the beginning. Whales were created. Man and woman was created at the same time.These three verses are the only verses in which anything was (bara) created in chapter 1 of Genesis.So where are the other 3 days of creation? What is vague about evening?What is vague about morning?Evening is the closing of a light period by darkness beginning.Morning is the closing of a dark period by light beginning.Why can the human mind not really comprehend time when time is a concept of the human mind? Are you saying the earth was not rotating on it's axis until the fourth day?Are you saying all the planets, stars, sun, moon in the universe was in suspended mode until the fourth day?Wouldn't that be very unscientific. I have no idea why John used month in Rev. 22:2 as time as we know it will not exist at that time. Where there is no man to mark time, time does not exist. God has no clocks as He is eternal existence. When we reach the place in Revelation 22 we will be in our eternal bodies and will not be creatures of time. Everybody has an opinion.The only opinion that counts is the one God has which He had Moses write down for us to understand how the universe and its inhabitants began to exist.I will admit my view which I am the only one I know of who holds such a view of Genesis chapter 1 and 2 may be wrong. But it has not been refuted. God is not a creature of time. God is eternal existence.Humans are eternal beings in a temporal body. One that will die because of the decision of the man that was formed from the dust of the ground in Genesis 2:7.When we receive our eternal body we will have been restored to the same state that man was in before he disobeyed God. Time will no longer exist as it is a human concept created by humans.BTW welcome to the fray.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

I know that you are probably joking here but would make you think this might even be any thing like heavenDoesnt look very spaciousOn an individual basis though if the statement is true that "in my Fathers house there are many mansion." Mine will be a silver city that is gleeming in the distance, recognizable from thousands of light years away. All of the dogs (actual k9s, not the other type) I ever owned will be inside with me along ofcourse with my loved ones and the outside will be patrolled and protected by thousands of others. Of course these dogs will have super cosmic abilities like Underdog, of course.The city in the pictures does however look much like I am hoping for, pretty neatEAMEdited by EMA, : No reason given.Edited by EMA, : No reason given.Edited by EMA, : No reason given.