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Author | Topic: 2014 was hotter than 1998. 2015 data in yet? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 438 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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xongsmith writes:
Solar windows are nice. I googled "solar power windows".... But for a century or so, New York City has had laws about how wide a tall building can be - because buildings tend to blot out the sun for buildings behind them. I'd be more impressed by the scalability of solar power if somebody actually did the math and showed how much solar power NYC could actually generate. Can solar windows, etc. provide enough power for the building plus the buildings in its shadow?
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Jon Inactive Member |
How much FF would we have to burn (and how fast) to melt all the ice?
Love your enemies!
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
How much FF would we have to burn (and how fast) to melt all the ice? If we continue at the current rate, we can raise temps enough to melt all of the ice. The question is instead how long would we have to wait. Part of the problem is that there is a positive feedback mechanism whereby increasing temperatures frees up CO2 from the oceans thereby increasing temps further. Avoiding the issue means avoiding the tipping point. Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams
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Jon Inactive Member |
The question was: How much FF would we have to burn (and how fast) to melt all the ice?
When you say "[i]f we continue at the current rate", you're just preaching and not offering any hard facts. So how much FF do we have to burn to melt all the ice and how fast do we have to burn it? Edited by Jon, : No reason given.Love your enemies!
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1431 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined:
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... I'd be more impressed by the scalability of solar power if somebody actually did the math and showed how much solar power NYC could actually generate. ... It's hard to generate solar power in a canyon, so really what you have are high rooftops and upper floors available -- maybe 1/4 of the ground acreage. Using area between buildings would cause more shade and blocked sun unless done with window panels -- basically sling a roof between buildings and maybe create something like a dome structure ... But I think a more viable alternative is to use wind power between buildings, vertical turbines. These could be made like giant works of art ... see art turbine Another vision is
I'm sure that the NY artists could rise to the challenge to create mobile sculptures that generate energy ... like a permanent "Macy's Xmas Parade" ... But if you are interested in solar power, airports are great places to have solar farms as the area around the runways needs to be open space with clear viewlines. You could also have coverings over highways and rail lines with panels on top, and part of the energy could be stored locally to light the highways at nights. One thing that I see going on is that these alternative energy sources are transforming the way we think about energy distribution, looking for aesthetic solutions not just a bunch of towers and electrical lines. That alone is worth pursuing. Enjoy ps -- for those following my personal experience with solar, I have already generated more power in January than I did in all of December (days getting longer again), and I still have energy in the bank ... so I expect to have a sizable surplus by the time I finish my first year on solar. Of course I also plan to replace gas for hot water and radiant floor heat with an electric water heater this summer, and that should take more electricity while saving on gas bills (I expect to save ~$1400.00 per year in combined gas and electric utility bills). by our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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NosyNed Member Posts: 9003 From: Canada Joined:
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So how much FF do we have to burn to melt all the ice and how fast do we have to burn it? I don't know. Do you? Should we keep going like this when we don't know the answer to that?
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Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 311 days) Posts: 16113 Joined:
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How much FF would we have to burn (and how fast) to melt all the ice? You've got a good point. Unless and until the people who tell us that we should take no action can answer that question exactly, we should ignore them.
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Jon Inactive Member |
You mean we should all give up the only source of energy we know to be capable of improving our lives (clean water, abundant food, health care, personal - and, by extension, economic and political - freedom, warm houses and general good times) out of what may be an insanely irrational fear?
If solar could give us what we needed, I'd say 'fuck, man, let's switch tomorrow'. But as it cannot - as no other energy source can - we need to ask the tough and honest questions, such as: is it worth giving up the food on your table and the clothes on your kids' backs just to stave off a few meters of sea water a couple hundred years in the future? Is it? Love your enemies!
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AZPaul3 Member Posts: 8552 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 4.9
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is it worth giving up the food on your table and the clothes on your kids' backs just to stave off a few meters of sea water a couple hundred years in the future? Is it?
No. But it would be worth giving up 10% of farm subsidies, 1 main battle tank, and a 5% increase in income tax on corporations and wealthy individuals each year to fund a $3 bn per year renewable energy project for the next 20 years to accomplish the same thing. And you can keep your house, Jon. You don't have to move into a mud hut or a cave. Oh, and you can keep you car, your fridge and your heat/AC during the transition as well.
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Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 311 days) Posts: 16113 Joined:
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You mean we should all give up the only source of energy we know to be capable of improving our lives (clean water, abundant food, health care, personal - and, by extension, economic and political - freedom, warm houses and general good times) out of what may be an insanely irrational fear? No, that's not what I mean. Do you want to guess again?
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9197 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.2 |
If you meant that I am guessing you would have said it.
Jon seems to have either a reading issue or a comprehension issue. Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
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Taq Member Posts: 10073 Joined: Member Rating: 5.2 |
You mean we should all give up the only source of energy we know to be capable of improving our lives (clean water, abundant food, health care, personal - and, by extension, economic and political - freedom, warm houses and general good times) out of what may be an insanely irrational fear? It isn't an irrational fear that CO2 is a greenhouse gas and will increase temperatures. It is rather solid science.
If solar could give us what we needed, I'd say 'fuck, man, let's switch tomorrow'. But as it cannot - as no other energy source can - we need to ask the tough and honest questions, such as: is it worth giving up the food on your table and the clothes on your kids' backs just to stave off a few meters of sea water a couple hundred years in the future? Nuclear can replace all of our gas and coal fired plants, and it can do it now. France has already shown that it can work. With advances in battery capacity, it won't be too long before everyone can use electric vehicles for personal transport. That just leaves large vehicles like transport trucks.
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
It isn't an irrational fear that CO2 is a greenhouse gas and will increase temperatures. It is rather solid science.
How much CO2 does it take to melt all that ice and raise the water by 216 feet? How much time do we got?
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Jon Inactive Member |
It isn't an irrational fear that CO2 is a greenhouse gas and will increase temperatures. It is rather solid science. That's not what I was referring to as an "irrational fear". For a hint see the subtitle of this post, your post, and the one you replied to.
Nuclear can replace all of our gas and coal fired plants, and it can do it now. Indeed. It's just unfortunate no one here is advocating such real alternatives to fossil fuels.
France has already shown that it can work. Well. France's production is below the U.S. That's the thing with looking at small countries - it's easy to distort the reality of the situation with large percentages of rather small wholes. It is a step though. Love your enemies!
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
The real problem, as I said and as you quoted is that renewables like solar and wind just cannot provide the power our societies need. Yet. Just because we can't just switch now doesn't mean we can't look to them as/for alternative sources. You've been talking about the scalability problems and reliability concerns, but I haven't seen anyone address this issue:
quote: Have you looked into the Tesla Powerwall? It's just a big battery. But I think that kind of technology can offer the crutch that solar and wind need be able to provide the utility that you're saying is required. There's still plenty of work to be done, but we shouldn't disregard the renewables just yet.
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