Message 1 of 27 (507182) 05-02-2009 3:56 PM

I'd like to see a poll with a scale of 1 to 5, with 5 being absolutely convinced, and 1 being very doubtful.

Message 4 of 27 (507206) 05-02-2009 6:52 PM

Reply to: Message 1 by InGodITrust 05-02-2009 3:56 PM

I don't know if I can find it without asking an internet acquaintence who was involved, but a poll was taken among science faculty in Ohio universities a few years back, during the Discovery Institute's push to get "Intelligent Design" a foothold in their public education system. It came out way over 90% on the side of evolution, but I can't give you details of how the questions were posed. The poll did, as I remember it, include more fields than just the biological sciences.

I'll google a while, and if that fails, I'll ask my cyberfriend.

Message 5 of 27 (507210) 05-02-2009 7:13 PM

Reply to: Message 4 by Coragyps 05-02-2009 6:52 PM

http://www.ohioscience.org/press03.shtml has the results:

You may already know of Project Steve - it's a semisatirical list of
now over 1000 scientists that support evolution - and they have to be named Steve. More detail at http://ncseweb.org/news/2009/02/project-steve-n-1000-004625

I' too, would like to see a survey like you propose, particularly if it were done among scientists in biological disciplines. I think it would show very plainly just how strongly evolutionary concepts are supported.

Message 6 of 27 (507216) 05-02-2009 8:05 PM

Reply to: Message 1 by InGodITrust 05-02-2009 3:56 PM

I have worked in the biological sciences (biotech) for 20 years now and I, personally, have never met (in those two decades) a scientist or biologist that does not subscribe to evolution. Not ONE!

"Few are those who see with their own eyes and feel with their own hearts." -Albert Einstein

"I would rather have a mind opened by wonder than one closed by belief."
~ Gerry Spence

Message 7 of 27 (507265) 05-03-2009 9:07 AM

Reply to: Message 1 by InGodITrust 05-02-2009 3:56 PM

In a more recent gallup poll 75% of postgraduates and 60% of college graduates say that "humans developed over millions of years from less advanced forms of life", while 22% and 37% respectively choose the "created in present form" option as shown here: Almost Half of Americans Believe Humans Did Not Evolve

It seems that most who do not subscribe to biological evolution as representing reality have very little scientific education and/or are religiously motivated.

I also found it ironic that 77% of American Jews (Judaism is the "the foundation of all the religions to its right on the above graph") agree that evolution is the "best explanation for life on Earth" as shown here:

Report: June 2008 U.S. Religious Landscape
Survey

Edited by DevilsAdvocate, : No reason given.

Message 8 of 27 (507266) 05-03-2009 9:12 AM

Reply to: Message 1 by InGodITrust 05-02-2009 3:56 PM

Why do you ask? Are you suspicious that schools are teaching a theory for which there is insufficient consensus among scientists?

I was surprised that the study reported by Coragyps found that only 93% of academic scientists in Ohio saw no challenges to the theory of evolution, but reading the news report I see that the survey included both secular and religious institutions. A survey of just the top universities and research institutions in the country would likely raise the number to 99%.

Within scientific circles there's far more dissent about relativity than evolution. The only place where there's uncertainty and confusion about evolution is among the lay public, who as a group can be characterized as scientifically challenged. To have a valid opinion about evolution one should be able to describe how it works, just at a broad and undetailed level, but man-on-the-street surveys would probably reveal that less than 1 in 10 are up to the task. In fact, a fair number can't tell you if the Sun revolves around the Earth or vice versa, and can't pick out countries or even continents from an unmarked globe. In other words, that a large percentage of the lay public questions evolution is just one more piece of data confirming the sad state of education in this country.

--Percy

Message 9 of 27 (507267) 05-03-2009 9:23 AM

Reply to: Message 7 by DevilsAdvocate 05-03-2009 9:07 AM

I, personally, had only two semesters of biology in my college career. But I took a LOT of chemistry, and some other "hard" science courses, on the way to a chemistry degree. When you do that, you can see for yourself that science actually does work - it gives accurate answers. That is why scientists come in at 95% or 93% supporting biological evolution - because science works.

Message 10 of 27 (507270) 05-03-2009 9:54 AM

Reply to: Message 5 by Coragyps 05-02-2009 7:13 PM

also found this interesting

found here: Project Steve

Also found this interesting:

Currently signed by 11,894 American Christian clergy as shown here: The Clergy Letter - from American Christian clergy – An Open Letter Concerning Religion and Science.

Methodism supports teaching of evolution

Compare this to this deceptive dissent list of 763 scientists (the majority of which have no biological science background) which doesn't even state that these scientists are opposed to biological evolution but rather that they are skeptical of the validity evolutionary mechanisms of natural selection and random mutations in biological evolution as shown here:

No where do they mention intelligent design, creationism, theism, god or religion in this "dissent list". This list is a fraud and shows the desperate measure the DI and other creationists will go to promote there agenda.

Found here: A Scientific Dissent from Darwinism a project of intelligent design's "flagship" the Discovery Institute

Edited by DevilsAdvocate, : No reason given.

Edited by DevilsAdvocate, : No reason given.

Message 11 of 27 (507271) 05-03-2009 10:12 AM

Reply to: Message 8 by Percy 05-03-2009 9:12 AM

It is on my old computer and will see if I can dig it up.

Needless to say the evidence is overwhelming that there is no argument against the reality of biological evolution (only in the ID/creationists mind) in the scientific community. It is only the scientifically uneducated and religiously motivated population that questions evolution.

Edited by DevilsAdvocate, : No reason given.

Message 12 of 27 (507305) 05-03-2009 2:33 PM

Reply to: Message 11 by DevilsAdvocate 05-03-2009 10:12 AM

I was under the impression that there was a larger fraction of the scientific community that doubted evolution. I might have got this from a Christian radio program titled "Creation Momments". On this program, they present an argument against evolution, and at times follow up with something like "no wonder more and more scientists have trouble with evolution".

Message 14 of 27 (507309) 05-03-2009 3:08 PM

Reply to: Message 12 by InGodITrust 05-03-2009 2:33 PM

I realise that you're satisfied with the answers you've been given, IGIT, but the phrase you quoted (or paraphrased) there at the end ("no wonder more and more scientists have trouble with evolution") reminded me of something funny. Creationists have always been saying this, and it's getting like a broken record.

For example (my bolds):

quote:

---

"Today, at the dawn of the new century, nothing is more certain than that Darwinism has lost its prestige among men of science. It has seen its day and will soon be reckoned a thing of the past. A few decades hence when people will look back upon the history of the doctrine of Descent, they will confess that the years between 1860 and 1880 were in many respects a time of carnival; and the enthusiasm which at that time took possession of the devotees of natural science will appear to them as the excitement attending some mad revel." Eberhard Dennert, At the Deathbed of Darwinism, 1904

---

quote:

---

"The science of twenty or thirty years ago was in high glee at the thought of having almost proved the theory of biological evolution. Today, for every careful, candid inquirer, these hopes are crushed; and with weary, reluctant sadness does modern biology now confess that the Church has probably been right all the time" - George McCready Price, quoted in J. E. Conant’s The Church The Schools And Evolution (1922)

---

quote:

---

"I suspect that the creationist has less mystery to explain away than the wholehearted evolutionist. On the balance of the things that I have both read and discovered for myself I am a creationist, so far as mega-evolution is concerned. By mega-evolution one refers to the origin of kingdoms, phyla, classes and orders, the largest groups in any classification of living things. I concede micro-evolution, of course, which is the origin by evolutionary processes of species, genera, and even families. An increasing number of thoughtful scientists seem to be adopting this view, which I should add is decades old, and far from being original." ~ Evan Shute, Flaws in the Theory of Evolution, (Nutley, New Jersey: Craig Press, 1961)

---

This page has many more amusing quotes on the same lines:

http://home.entouch.net/dmd/moreandmore.htm

Message 15 of 27 (507312) 05-03-2009 3:12 PM

Reply to: Message 12 by InGodITrust 05-03-2009 2:33 PM

They have been saying this for decades and decades. They wish that evolution would finally be rejected but it isn't happening.

However, taken all by itself, out of context I can make a case that the above statement is true!

More and more scientists are interested in evolutionary processes and effects. So more and more scientists are studying it for one reason or another (even aircraft designers now).

Evolution is a very complex phenomena. We do not have all the details sorted out and explained. So almost all scientists involved have "trouble" with it. In fact if they did not have "trouble" there would be nothing to do research on.

However, the "trouble" is in the myriad details of how things have unfolded and tiny issues in the application of the theory (e.g., what is needed for speciation to occur, is there selection at the gene, individual, species or ecosystem level and so on). The "trouble" is not with the overall expression of the theory and certainly not with the fact that life on earth has evolved generally as described.

Edited by NosyNed, : No reason given.