What gives God the right to be "holy"?

thats very true and infact Jesus and the apostles all indicated that it would eventuate that way, but it doesnt mean that true christianity would not exist in the world... it would just make it harder to find.

Because he's great! Kind, gentle, patient, loving, considerate...And I'd like to be like that.

How do you know that that is a 'great' thing?T&U

But he's also a cruel bastard as well. Why be like him?

Jesus? Sure.God? Not so much.

Your "negligent parent" theory doesn't make sense to me.Do you have children of your own ? Do they bitterly rant and rage against you for "negligence" for thier own wrong choices, and those contrary to your clear warning ?You better educate them that what bad concequences they bear for going contrary to your advice is purely the fault of your negligence.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

..oh, and because he hates evil too. And because he promises to put infinite distance between me and it. Even though I do evil, I hate it too.Edited by iano, : No reason given.

Great! indicates I find those qualities admirable/attractive/worthy of emulation. It doesn't mean they are in any absolute sense (given the pointlessness of subjective/abolute discussions)

Where "evil" is anything that falls short of the 100% purity insisted by the evangelical Christian god. "evil" is being conned into eating an apple, "evil" is my 9 yr old having to be told three times to tidy his room, "evil" is me telling my wife that I'll be home in five minutes, knowing full well that by the time I have finished my pint, it will be ten minutes, "evil" is telling the Nazi at the door that there's no Jews upstairs.You are being exceptionally disingenuous here Iano, using this word EVIL, when you know full well that we are talking about an unattainable expectation - I have lived and breathed your Gospel for far far longer than you have, and know it rather well...What makes the evangelical Christian god so abhorrent is his 100% expectation - an expectation that results in billions of souls screaming in agony in hell. It is a nonsense of a concept. The salvation offered by Jesus is merely a way of escaping the utterly unreasonable demands of a tyrrant. The evangelical Christian god is not good in any sane view of the word - he is simply a bastardisation of far too many contradictory concepts, and the immense cracks in his definition are shoddily plastered over with pseudo-theological christo-babble, as we see in abundance from Jaywill, and you to some extent (and from me in the past).Edited by cavediver, : No reason given.

It's nothing to do with ranting and raving it's to do with naive youngsters being looked after by someone with no knowledge of how to deal with children!I would want my kids to have free will but that does not mean I have to set them up with a situation where one choice is neutral and one choice is damnation every after.Who in their right would would offer that to a child?I would expect them to make mistakes and not punishes them and their grand children and great grand children etc for ever after for said mistake.I would not exposed electrical wires with live current running through it within easy reach and say 'don't touch' before walking away to let them do what I already know they will do.This is what your god did (for some reason known only to him based on his fiat).

Um, Who designed human growth? I mean from zygot to adult, was it your wisdom that designed this growth process? Well, I raised two who are now in their upper 20s and 30s. And I have a house full of four foster kids.Have some kids first and get back with me in a few years.I have little time now. I'll come back and look at your untheology latter. This was a quicky.Genesis doesn't mention eternal damnation. Except it is kind of implied in chapter 3 verse 22, an endless existence in sin.And by definition if God is the source all blessing any place totally free from him where those who want nothing to do with God, must be a hell, I would think.By definition, then, a world "free" from God to the uttermost must be a torment. But you're free to go there is you wish.I think that is really pretty big of God. Especially seeing that His Son already went to damnation on behalf of all that they might not go.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

let me paint you a scenario:I have two children (I have 3, but for this discussion I have 2). They are youngsters: still full of vibrance without a care in the world (just as A&E are portrayed in genesis). I leave them home....alone (they don't really get into stuff, I trust them. they're good kids. After all, I made them, right?). I tell them: "do not stick THIS knife in the socket, for surely you will be electrocuted". (they've never been electrocuted before, but this is still my choice of words).Now, next door lives a known villain/child molester/child kidnapper/general bad guy. I leave the patio door open, almost tempting this fella into my home. Who'da thunk it! he comes in and tells the kids I am wrong, and it's ok to stick the knife into the socket. Guess what: my little girl sticks the knife in the socket and feels a slight tingle. She thinks it feels neat. She runs ot her brother and tells him how neat it feels. The grimy old man says "see, I told you it wasn't so bad"I come home to see burn marks in the wall where they stuck the knife in the socket. (yada yada yada, A&E story continues)
I banish ALL of my young'ns to eternity with the perv next door. All their kids. Their kids' kids. THEIR kids. so on and so on.I'm a great, loving parent, aren't I? Edited by hooah212002, : No reason given.Edited by hooah212002, : blasphemous spelling errors!!!!!

How swell of jesus to pop into hell for a couple of days and give satan a "hey what's up. I'll destroy you later" for all of us, while the rest of the blasphemous heathens spend eternity there.Edited by hooah212002, : No reason given.

A: No one designed it.2: Irrelevant to the topic. Running away? How Christian. But this is the whole point of this thread! 'By definition' is by definition as supplied by you god. He says what is right, no arguments; and you believe him, why?Like the wife beater who says with a straight face 'I'm doing this because I love you. You are nothing without me'. Jesus damned? Pull the other one, it's got bells on. Jesus was inconvenienced for a weekend and ended up living it large with daddy dearest in Castle fucking Greyskull up in heaven.Damned? Do me a favour!

This is exactly what my incoherent rantings were trying to convey.5/5!