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Author Topic:   Gotta love those Republicans
Izanagi
Member (Idle past 5216 days)
Posts: 263
Joined: 09-15-2009


Message 1 of 11 (530922)
10-15-2009 1:59 PM


I heard about this on the Daily Show. You can read about it here.
Basically, a woman was gang-raped in 2005 by her Halliburton/KBR co-workers and locked in a container for a day to prevent her from reporting the attack. Because the attack occurred outside US criminal jurisdiction, she couldn't have charges brought before her attackers. But to add insult to injury, she couldn't sue KBR because her contract had a clause that stated that matters of this type could only be handled through private arbitration.
So Senator Franken, along with Senator Landrieu, proposed an amendment, nicknamed the Rape Amendment, to House Bill, H.R. 3326, stating that money being appropriated by the Defense bill is not be used for any new or existing Federal contract if the contractor or subcontractor currently has any rule that mandates that employees or independent contractors must use arbitration to settle any disputes resulting from violation of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 or any tort related to or arising out of sexual assault or harassment, including assault and battery, intentional infliction of emotional distress, false imprisonment, or negligent hiring, supervision, or retention.
So the bill ensures that the Defense Department will not give contracts to any business that refuses to allow an employee legal recourse for certain crimes or actions, such as rape. Who could argue with that, right?
Well, when it came time to vote, 30 Senators apparently found a way to say NO to the amendment. And, interestingly, all 30 Senators were Republicans.
Even more interestingly is that four (Sen. Johanns, Sen. Shelby, Sen. Bond, Sen. Graham) of those 30 Republicans, perhaps more, were very vocal about defunding ACORN for supposed wrong-doing. So some ACORN employees advises some fake pimps and prostitutes and those Senators want to defund ACORN. Halliburton/KBR employees gang-rape a woman and those Senators are against an amendment that denies funding to organizations like Halliburton or KBR for denying legal recourse to their employees for certain actions.
I have to say, this makes me think that many Republicans really are acting like poor losers or spoiled brats, saying NO to everything because they aren't in control.
What do you think?

It's just some things you never get over. That's just the way it is. You go on through... best as you can. - Matthew Scott
----------------------------------------
Marge, just about everything is a sin. (holds up a Bible) Y'ever sat down and read this thing? Technically we're not supposed to go to the bathroom. - Reverend Lovejoy
----------------------------------------
You know, I used to think it was awful that life was so unfair. Then I thought, wouldn't it be much worse if life were fair, and all the terrible things that happen to us come because we actually deserve them? So, now I take great comfort in the general hostility and unfairness of the universe. - Marcus Cole

Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by Jazzns, posted 10-15-2009 2:22 PM Izanagi has replied
 Message 4 by Larni, posted 10-15-2009 3:23 PM Izanagi has not replied
 Message 6 by onifre, posted 10-15-2009 5:59 PM Izanagi has replied

  
Jazzns
Member (Idle past 3911 days)
Posts: 2657
From: A Better America
Joined: 07-23-2004


Message 2 of 11 (530931)
10-15-2009 2:22 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Izanagi
10-15-2009 1:59 PM


Republican citizens don't like to discuss the epic failures of their reps.
I have tried to start threads like this before and ususally what you get is total silence from the conservatives. This is something that is basically so disgusting that no amount of cognitive dissonance can compel a person to defend it.
But I could always be plesantly suprised and we will get someone in here who wants to defend Republican Senators who wish to keep defense contractors immune from the law.
Heck! They aren't even talking about criminal law! This only covers civil law! Even with this ammendment, the rapists still don't go to jail like they should. And they can't even be bothered to leave their Xe and KBR buddies out in the cold on this 1 issue.

If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be. --Thomas Jefferson

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Izanagi, posted 10-15-2009 1:59 PM Izanagi has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by Izanagi, posted 10-15-2009 3:14 PM Jazzns has replied

  
Izanagi
Member (Idle past 5216 days)
Posts: 263
Joined: 09-15-2009


Message 3 of 11 (530944)
10-15-2009 3:14 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by Jazzns
10-15-2009 2:22 PM


Re: Republican citizens don't like to discuss the epic failures of their reps.
True, but there are a lot of lurkers out there, I imagine. I like to think by talking about topics like these, we inform people of what is going on. Just exposing hypocrisy like this gives people a more informed view of the world.

It's just some things you never get over. That's just the way it is. You go on through... best as you can. - Matthew Scott
----------------------------------------
Marge, just about everything is a sin. (holds up a Bible) Y'ever sat down and read this thing? Technically we're not supposed to go to the bathroom. - Reverend Lovejoy
----------------------------------------
You know, I used to think it was awful that life was so unfair. Then I thought, wouldn't it be much worse if life were fair, and all the terrible things that happen to us come because we actually deserve them? So, now I take great comfort in the general hostility and unfairness of the universe. - Marcus Cole

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by Jazzns, posted 10-15-2009 2:22 PM Jazzns has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 5 by Jazzns, posted 10-15-2009 3:33 PM Izanagi has not replied

  
Larni
Member (Idle past 164 days)
Posts: 4000
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 4 of 11 (530946)
10-15-2009 3:23 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Izanagi
10-15-2009 1:59 PM


Wow.
Just 'wow'.
Us Brits often see the US Republican party portrayed as 'just plain evil' but I've never really taken it seriously.
It kind of puts them on a par with the BNP, in my mind.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Izanagi, posted 10-15-2009 1:59 PM Izanagi has not replied

  
Jazzns
Member (Idle past 3911 days)
Posts: 2657
From: A Better America
Joined: 07-23-2004


Message 5 of 11 (530949)
10-15-2009 3:33 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by Izanagi
10-15-2009 3:14 PM


Re: Republican citizens don't like to discuss the epic failures of their reps.
You should change your title to be more catchy. As much as I am berating someone else in another thread for doing something similar, you should call it "Republicans endorse gang rape by defense contractors".
Shock the conscious, as it should be shocked.

If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be. --Thomas Jefferson

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by Izanagi, posted 10-15-2009 3:14 PM Izanagi has not replied

  
onifre
Member (Idle past 2951 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 6 of 11 (530998)
10-15-2009 5:59 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Izanagi
10-15-2009 1:59 PM


I have to say, this makes me think that many Republicans really are acting like poor losers or spoiled brats, saying NO to everything because they aren't in control.
Fuck, I hate to sound like I'm supporting ANY side, but you failed to mention that 10 Rep did vote YES. Republicans shouldn't be signalled out for this one, IMO.
Especially when 10 voted for it, and you Mr. Izagani, curiously didn't mention that. Providing your own spin to it? LOL
So the bill ensures that the Defense Department will not give contracts to any business that refuses to allow an employee legal recourse for certain crimes or actions, such as rape. Who could argue with that, right?
Ehh, not exactly.
The exact Amendment: source
quote:
To prohibit the use of funds for any Federal contract with Halliburton Company, KBR, Inc., any of their subsidiaries or affiliates, or any other contracting party if such contractor or a subcontractor at any tier under such contract requires that employees or independent contractors sign mandatory arbitration clauses regarding certain claims.
It has nothing to do with "rape" specifically.
Also, it really does signal out Halliburton Company, and while I think they're a corrupt piece of shit company that should be burned to the ground, you can't signal them out in an Amendment like that. ESPECIALLY when the US uses them for every fuck'n overseas contract.
Just to add, I could see how the wording of the Amendment might be used for frivolous lawsuits. They also might want to avoid lawsuits from contractors like Blackwater employees and their families. However, I'm glad the Amendment passed.
Now, with that being said, John Stewart is hilarious!
- Oni

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Izanagi, posted 10-15-2009 1:59 PM Izanagi has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 7 by subbie, posted 10-15-2009 6:12 PM onifre has replied
 Message 11 by Izanagi, posted 10-15-2009 11:24 PM onifre has not replied

  
subbie
Member (Idle past 1254 days)
Posts: 3509
Joined: 02-26-2006


Message 7 of 11 (531002)
10-15-2009 6:12 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by onifre
10-15-2009 5:59 PM


Actual language of the amendment
quote:
It has nothing to do with "rape" specifically.
What you quoted was in essence a summary. I believe the actual amendment says:
Sec. 8104. (a) None of the funds appropriated or otherwise made available by this Act may be used for any existing or new Federal contract if the contractor or a subcontractor at any tier requires that an employee or independent contractor, as a condition of employment, sign a contract that mandates that the employee or independent contractor performing work under the contract or subcontract resolve through arbitration any claim under title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 or any tort related to or arising out of sexual assault or harassment, including assault and battery, intentional infliction of emotional distress, false imprisonment, or negligent hiring, supervision, or retention.
(b) The prohibition in subsection (a) does not apply with respect to employment contracts that may not be enforced in a court of the United States.
I'm not completely sure that this was the final language of the amendment voted on, but I am completely sure that the final language did not say "certain claims." That would be so vague as to be meaningless in the absence of other language clarifying which certain claims.
It also appears that the actual amendment doesn't mention any contractor or subcontractor specifically.
I'd be curious to hear the reasoning behind your suggestion that it might be about frivolous lawsuits.
Edited by subbie, : Add linky thingy
Edited by subbie, : Removing linky thingy that doesn't work

Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. Ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them; and no man ever had a distinct idea of the trinity. It is the mere Abracadabra of the mountebanks calling themselves the priests of Jesus. -- Thomas Jefferson
For we know that our patchwork heritage is a strength, not a weakness. We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and non-believers. -- Barack Obama
We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by onifre, posted 10-15-2009 5:59 PM onifre has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 8 by onifre, posted 10-15-2009 7:19 PM subbie has replied

  
onifre
Member (Idle past 2951 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 8 of 11 (531021)
10-15-2009 7:19 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by subbie
10-15-2009 6:12 PM


Re: Actual language of the amendment
What you quoted was in essence a summary. I believe the actual amendment says:
The link didn't come up, Subbie. Something about a limited time...?
I'll look for it though, unless you can provide it again.
It also appears that the actual amendment doesn't mention any contractor or subcontractor specifically.
My link was from the Senate and it was quoted directly from the part reading Statement of Purpose:
My link again: US Senate Legislation
It specifically mentions Halliburton & KBR. I'd like to see your link though.
I'd be curious to hear the reasoning behind your suggestion that it might be about frivolous lawsuits.
I didn't say it was about frivolous lawsuits, I said:
ONI writes:
I could see how the wording of the Amendment might be used for frivolous lawsuits.
Honestly, I think the original reason for refusing to allow employees legal recourse was for contractors like Blackwater, not for rape victims.
- Oni

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by subbie, posted 10-15-2009 6:12 PM subbie has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 9 by subbie, posted 10-15-2009 7:38 PM onifre has not replied

  
subbie
Member (Idle past 1254 days)
Posts: 3509
Joined: 02-26-2006


Message 9 of 11 (531024)
10-15-2009 7:38 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by onifre
10-15-2009 7:19 PM


Re: Actual language of the amendment
quote:
The link didn't come up, Subbie. Something about a limited time...?
I'll look for it though, unless you can provide it again.
Oops, my bad. Didn't realize that was a Library of Congress site. Here's how to get to it.
From your page, click S.Amdt. 2588. On that page, click S10069-10070. From there, click Page: S10069. The Franken Amendment is the first one listed.

Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. Ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them; and no man ever had a distinct idea of the trinity. It is the mere Abracadabra of the mountebanks calling themselves the priests of Jesus. -- Thomas Jefferson
For we know that our patchwork heritage is a strength, not a weakness. We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and non-believers. -- Barack Obama
We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by onifre, posted 10-15-2009 7:19 PM onifre has not replied

  
Taz
Member (Idle past 3291 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 10 of 11 (531049)
10-15-2009 10:41 PM


I don't know what is more disturbing in this case, the fact that a woman was gang raped and then the company tried to cover up while after a whole day she finally found someone who had enough sympathy to give her a cell phone OR people like riverrat, buzsaw, and their ilk continue to preach their so-called moral high grounds in their right wing conservatism that allowed something like this to happen.

  
Izanagi
Member (Idle past 5216 days)
Posts: 263
Joined: 09-15-2009


Message 11 of 11 (531056)
10-15-2009 11:24 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by onifre
10-15-2009 5:59 PM


Fuck, I hate to sound like I'm supporting ANY side, but you failed to mention that 10 Rep did vote YES. Republicans shouldn't be signalled out for this one, IMO.
No, Republicans SHOULD be signaled out on this precisely because 30 Republicans voted NO on it. Thirty out of forty Republicans is 75% of Republicans in the Senate who voted NO. The fact that any person could vote NO for an amendment that forbids the US to give money to contractors who have their employees sign a private arbitration clause to prevent them from suing in cases of rape is ridiculous. Should the US fund organizations like those?
And again, four of the Republicans who spoke out against cutting funding from those contractors were the ones who wanted to cut funding from ACORN because some college kid goes out pretending to be a pimp to solicit help from ACORN. So ACORN helps pimps and prostitutes file their taxes and find housing and Republicans want their funding cut, but Halliburton/KBR employees gangrape a woman and the woman has no legal options because of a private arbitration clause and those Republicans still want to give Halliburton/KBR our Federal tax dollars. Don't you think that's a bit hypocritical?
There is not much spin I could put on this to make it seem even more atrocious than it already is.
To see the actual text of the Senate Amendment 2588, click http://www.govtrack.us/congress/amendment.xpd?session=111&amdt=s2588 and then click on THOMAS for S.Amdt. 2588 or check out the PDF at http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getpage.cgi?position=all&page=S10069&dbname=2009_record
Edited by Izanagi, : No reason given.
Edited by Izanagi, : No reason given.
Edited by Izanagi, : No reason given.

It's just some things you never get over. That's just the way it is. You go on through... best as you can. - Matthew Scott
----------------------------------------
Marge, just about everything is a sin. (holds up a Bible) Y'ever sat down and read this thing? Technically we're not supposed to go to the bathroom. - Reverend Lovejoy
----------------------------------------
You know, I used to think it was awful that life was so unfair. Then I thought, wouldn't it be much worse if life were fair, and all the terrible things that happen to us come because we actually deserve them? So, now I take great comfort in the general hostility and unfairness of the universe. - Marcus Cole

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by onifre, posted 10-15-2009 5:59 PM onifre has not replied

  
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