The God Delusion, how it converted an evangalist

Dear Mr DawkinsMy name was father Ramassey and I was an evangelical priest whom since reading your books the God Delusion and the greatest show on Earth, I have as per your very wise advice converted myself to Atheism, accepted Evolution as fact and I have since closed down my church.My church had approximately 2500 members at the time I closed it, their donations to the church had grown to about $420,000 a year on average over the past 8 years, $90,000 of which was used to run the church and the rest we used for charitable causes.In the last 2 years we had $250,000 committed to several charitable programs in Asia and Africa and the balance we donated to projects in the local community which included a help centre for single parents and towards various communities based children sports.Since I closed the church these charitable initiatives have all ended as we no longer had the ability to financially support them. Lately, although I feel a sense of moral superiority since I am no longer living or preaching lies I have begun to question if there is any moral issue since I can no longer assist the charities which depended on my churches income.We provided funding to several orphanages in Johannesburg in South Africa and for mobile immunization and treatment tent centers for Malaria sufferers working along the Thai/Burma border which was operated by my close friend and associate Sister Anne who is a qualified nurse. Since I have stopped sending funds these services which we almost completely funded ourselves have now ceased and I have begun receiving feedback that the orphanages are struggling to offer services and the mobile Malaria treatment facility has run out of medicine and the staff is helpless to assist any more patients. They say they are seeing the death rate now rising from malaria and it’s mostly children who are suffering.The problem I have is I am getting calls almost every evening pleading for my help from the director of the Malaria program Sister Anne. I have explained to her that the children are dying from malaria because of natural selection and that she should not worry about it, those children who survive will pass on their genes and eventually some people will become immune to that strain of Malaria, simple evolution, any idiot can understand it, except silly Sister Anne.The most annoying thing is when Sister Anne calls she is almost constantly crying, I have countless times explained to her that the emotion of sadness she is experiencing is just a chemical process in her body created during human evolution as a primitive survival tool and that she should simply ignore it. However no matter how many times I tell her to shut up she keeps crying and saying that I’ve changed. I explained to her that yes I have changed for the better, and if she wanted any chance of living a life true to herself she should read your books the God delusion and the Greatest show on Earth and get her pathetic delusional life together.When she asks me for money I ask her why she doesn’t ask her God for the money to buy the medicines! I’m now working 45hours a week as a social studies teacher and barely making enough money to survive myself and I don’t have time or the money to do charity work, which frankly is not my responsibility, it’s the Governments responsibility.Additionally to comfort her I explained to her that the people dying around them do not have souls so she shouldn’t worry about anyone haunting her or for any possible negative repercussions by ignoring these needy people since there is no God or afterlife, so she should not feel any guilt on her conscience walking away from her charity work.What else can I tell to comfort this silly woman? I sent her your books, but she said she doesn’t have time to read them because she is too busy trying to help others, I’m starting to think this woman is mentally challenged?, why does she waste her time like this when she should be getting herself a husband, making children and passing on her genes?Anyway thank you so much Richard for helping me come to my senses and see the light, your guidance and wisdom have no doubt made me a better person, thank you so much.Yours Sincerely
Mr Ramassey

Hi Den,This reads like an open letter rather than a debate thread proposal, so I'll put it in Coffee House.

---

--	Percy
	EvC Forum Director

Thread copied here from the The God Delusion, how it converted an evangalist thread in the Proposed New Topics forum.

I think it's awful how you really threw the baby out with the bath water.Was you faith the only reason you tried to be a good caring person? How awful that you had to be told by the 'good book' to be a decent fellow.

I am inclined to suspect that your whole post contradicts this part.

this is identical to How Dawkins made me a better personI'd close this one as it has fewer responses.Edited by RAZD, : .

Dear Mr Den,It is of course obvious that what you have written is not true. And you might pause to wonder why it is that the most hateful and vitriolic thing you can think to say against atheism is something that you've made up in your head.And I wonder at your reason for expending so much time and trouble on composing such an obvious falsehood. Various possibilities occur to me.(1) That you actually hope to deceive someone into believing that this story is true. In that case, you would be a liar and a fool.(2) That you do not hope or expect to deceive anyone; but that this is merely a crude attempt at satire.I believe or at least hope the latter case to be more likely.In that case, we have various further sub-cases to consider.For the meaning of your clumsy satire would be the foulest of fundamentalist lies --- that atheists are incapable of that most basic and universal of human emotions, love of one's neighbor.So either:(2a) You know that this is false, and are therefore a liar.(2b) You do not know that this is false, but believe it because you have been driven insane with hatred for those of your neighbors who do not share your doctrines.(2c) You do not know that this is false, but are so young, so gullible, and so pitifully ignorant of the world you live in that you have been deceived by some authority figure into believing that it is true.For your sake, I hope the latter is the case.In any case, whether you are a liar, a fool, insane, or merely vastly ignorant, I hope that you will one day improve in morality, in wisdom, in sanity, or in knowledge (depending on your particular deficit).I will add one thing. Surely an evangelical Christian such as yourself must have as the dearest wish of your heart to convert even one non-believer to your religion, thus saving a soul from Hell. Is not an evangelist one who wishes to bring the gospel, were if possible, to all humankind in particular and in general? Yet of course ravings such as yours must necessarily give atheists the lowest and most contemptuous picture of Christianity. If you really intend to send this letter to Professor Dawkins, it is not beyond conjecture that he will quote from it at length in one of his future books, as demonstrating the utter degradation to which religion can reduce a man.Your brother in being human,Dr Adequate.

I'd leave this one open as it now has exactly the same number of responses and more thoroughly exposes the character of the original poster.Of the two beds he made, let him lie in this one.Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

How my Marriage was Destroyed by the Homosexual Agenda
- a really very truly honest testimonial
by Eve AngelicoOnce, I was a happy woman.I was a mother. I had two wonderful children who knew how to behave themselves: Constance and Aaron.I was a wife. My husband, Christian, was a good solid man I could count on.That was just a few months ago. How could we have known, back then, that our blissful family would soon be torn apart forever by the forces of Satan?Oh, as I look back on it now, I can see that there were signs, like when Mr. Penderglass down the street started wearing teal, or when attendance at the Boy Scouts pack meeting started going down, or when Father Hanlon, who holds mass down at the All Souls Grace Blessing Rosary of Our Lady of the Aching Lower Back Cathedral started a midnight solo boy's glee club, with rehearsals in room 204 at the Motel Six. At the time, of course, I just thought it was God working in mysterious ways.If I had to choose one moment when my denial finally started to crumble, it would be the time when I found a smudge of bright red lipstick on the front pocket of Christian's best short-sleeved white wrinkle-free Sunday dress shirt. You see, every night when Christian comes home from work, I greet him at the door with a nice kiss on the cheek. The thing is, I only wear purple shades of lipstick, ranging from a light violet to a medium mauve. A few years ago, the Mary Kay representative on my block let me know, confidentially, that anything outside of this color range would be considered indiscreet, given my complexion. I don't even own any red lipstick. Too much red can give men the wrong idea.Well, I was pretty upset seeing that red lipstick on my husband's collar. I confronted Christian that very evening, right after I kissed him at the door and brought him his evening glass of beer.He didn't deny anything. He told me that had spent the afternoon in an alley, french kissing a woman named Tanya he had met in a tavern, after getting drunk on Schlitz malt liquor using money he had withdrawn from our children's college fund.When I demanded an explanation, he looked at me with a confused expression on his face and asked me, "Haven't you heard that the Supreme Court in Massachusetts has said that it's legal for gay couples to get married?"Suddenly, everything became clear.I ran across the living room and fell into the Lazy Boy where Christian was sitting, and threw my arms around him. "Oh, you poor baby," I cried. "You must feel awful! Why didn't you just call me to let me know?"Christian gazed deeply into my teary eyes. "What's the point of being honest with each other anymore, honey, now that gays can get married in Massachusetts?""Do you mean to say...""Darling, let's admit it. Our marriage is over."To hear these words from my husband was a difficult thing. The more I thought about it, though, the more I realized that I just didn't care about him anymore, now that gay people were going to be getting married. The love was gone, thanks to that damn homosexual agenda.I was about to ask Christian if he would like to experiment with some non-traditional lifestyle choices when I heard the front door opening. It was the kids coming home from school! How would we break it to them?Aaron set down his backpack to kiss me on the cheek. He was wearing a navy blue blazer with a matching tie, ornamented only with an American flag lapel pin. "Gosh mom," he said as he passed us by on the way to change into his Eagle Scout uniform, "what a long day at school! Still, I know that the Lord wants us to study hard so that we can read the Bible."As Constance walked into the kitchen, her ankle-length grey flannel skirt brushed up against Christian's wrist, and I saw his cheeks grow red. "Hey, honey," he leaned over to whisper, "Now that we're going to get a divorce, do you mind if I ask Constance to go out with me to the drive-in tonight? I promise I won't go past third base until she's ready."What the hell, I thought. Sure, she's our daughter, but now that gays are going to be allowed to get marriage licenses in downtown Boston, all concepts of morality are destroyed, and it doesn't really make a difference anymore. I wondered to myself which of my neighbors' houses would be the easiest to break into - I needed a cup of sugar.Constance turned on the radio in the kitchen to the Christian AM station we always listen to, and that's when our family's fate was finally sealed. The Lord's news update was saying that gay people in San Francisco were being allowed to get married right then and there!Constance turned around suddenly, with a strange look on her face that I had never seen before. All of a sudden, she started running towards the front door, ripping off her clothes. The last I saw of her, she was skipping down the street, wearing nothing but a flower in her hair, screaming, "I'm sexually promiscuous now! Does anyone want to have some casual sex so that I can get a sexually transmitted disease and then have an abortion?"Aaron came downstairs with a hurt and confused look on his face. "Golly," he whispered to Christian, "do you think that Constance has been influenced by the 1960s culture of permissiveness?"Christian frowned and said, "Son, all that you need to know that gay people are getting married in San Francisco."Immediately, Aaron ripped the merit badges from his uniform and threw them on the floor. "Fucking shit, Mom," he said to me. "I guess I'd better drop out of school and join a gang of juvenile delinquents.""Okay," I said, feeling all my parental authority melting away, "But try to be home before midnight. We'll be getting Cinemax now, and I'll bet there will be a really sexy and violent movie on after prime time. Maybe we can even illegally record it on our VCR."Aaron told me to shut up, then burped and walked out the door.Christian and I sighed. It was hard to say goodbye to him, but I knew the time had come. The homosexual agenda had succeeded in destroying our family, even though we had been happy, secure, and God-fearing just a few hours before.Who knows what will happen next? I suppose that as the news of gay marriages in San Francisco spreads, everybody in town will be getting divorced.I'm not sure where I'll end up, of course, but I'm taking my first steps in this new world shaped by homosexuality. I suppose I'll have to become a lesbian now. I've put in a call to the local Lions Club asking if they know about where I can get in touch with a baby-killing satanic cult in our area, and I've cancelled the check I wrote last week to the Christian Coalition.To think that it all could have been different, if gay people had just left well enough alone and not wanted to get married.

...but this is patently untrue - if you really did read the book - including chapter 10 you already know that you don't need religious infrastructure to provide charity for those less fortunate.Your glib answers are childish to say the least.... Why not? Are you saying that once a church closes it's doors the fickle congregation no longer wish to contribute monies? Do they think God is no longer watching once the tin plate isn't rattled in front of their faces whilst sat in those pews? Can't they give in one of the myriad other ways that secular charity givers do?....if so, that isn't morality. If you only give because you're in a church then what of your moral code? Do you realise that the huge African death toll to AIDS has been worsened by the Christian (Catholic) position (fostered by Mother Teresa no less) of withholding sex education and contraception information, including condoms all in the name of your religion). You really shouldn't throw stones when you're sitting in the most fragile of glass houses! Perhaps you should re-read them as well. You have learnt nothing if you did indeed read them (which I am almost certainly sure you have not - maybe you skim read a few pages - enough to pull out phrases such as "Brights", but nowhere near enough to understand the issues underpinning the works.....for example you clearly have no idea that science, evolution and atheism are not moral codes - which you are implying in this childish message. I have responded in another one of your messages and I again tell you - read about the twentieth/twenty-first century moralistic code called 'humanism'. This is the code many (but by no means all) atheists recognise. Please read this then start a thread - if you can - I think you'll find that humanism is far morally superior to anything you'll find in either the Old or New Testament. But don't take my word for it - Google it and get reading - you have a serious misunderstanding of the world around you - perhaps you have sat in church pews too long!