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Author | Topic: Gun Control III | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
NoNukes Inactive Member |
Trump tweeting his words of wisdom.
quote: That's great insight Mr. President. The problem is that people did report this mentally disturbed person. In fact, he even caught the attention of the FBI. It did not do a bit of good. Emphasis added by me. Reporting Florida Shooter Didn’t Keep Him From Getting a Gun
quote: quote: Absolutely nothing will be done about any of this. Democrats will make some noise, Republicans will tell them that it is the wrong time to talk about gun control. As if there is ever a right time. And in a few weeks something worse will happen. Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door! We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World. Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith |
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ringo Member (Idle past 437 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
We need to arm the cashiers at Safeway so they can protect the customers. What if the administrator does not want to have "ability to engage in shootout to protect lives" in their job description? Seems well above my pay grade, anyway.An honest discussion is more of a peer review than a pep rally. My toughest critics here are the people who agree with me. -- ringo
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Tanypteryx Member Posts: 4440 From: Oregon, USA Joined: Member Rating: 5.1 |
Phat writes:
We need to arm the cashiers at Safeway so they can protect the customers. What if the administrator does not want to have "ability to engage in shootout to protect lives" in their job description? Seems well above my pay grade, anyway. Armed drones in every classroom, patrolling every hallway, every aisle in Safeway. An overwhelming fire power response at the first sign of "trouble." If it works on the "battlefield" it should be good enough to protect our kids. Ideally, every student would have their own personal protective drones. The more drones we have the safer we will be.What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq
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frako Member (Idle past 331 days) Posts: 2932 From: slovenija Joined: |
Or just give every teacher an RPG to carry around shock and awe!!
Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand What are the Christians gonna do to me ..... Forgive me, good luck with that.
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ICANT Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: Member Rating: 1.6
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Hi frako,
frako writes: If america started reading the well regulated part it might offer some relief but you have so many guns its doubtful you could keep them from the wrong hands anymore. If i remember right there are more guns in america then there are people. frako I kind of shy away from this topic but though I would comment here. The civilian militia is made up of every person 18 and older. That even includes 22 million former military people that are trained. I raised 2 sons in a house where every gun in the house was loaded at all times. They were exposed to what a gun would do by the time they were 4 years old. They were taught what a gun was for and by the time they were six they could use one. My oldest son killed his first deer when he was 7 years old. The younger son never cared about hunting although he learned how to hunt in case he would need to be able to forge for food. When it comes to the ar15 it is not the best weapon to cause mass damage. Yet it is the one that is always mentioned. A shotgun with 4" 00 buckshot shells carrying 15 pellets in each shell would do the most damage. Such a weapon with an improved cylinder bore would cover a 6x6 piece of plywood at 50 yards. Anything in that area would receive a lot of damage. There are shotguns that will handle 8 & 9 shells in a tube magazine. Some take clips like the AR15 with 20 round clips and a drum with 28 rounds. 28 rounds could be fired as fast as you could pull the trigger. Dispensing 420 pellets in less than a minute. A shotgun is a scatter gun that covers a lot of square feet with 1 round fired. It is estimated that between 50 and 100 million households have a weapon in them. I would think that estimate is very low as there are millions of homes that have weapons that no one knows they are in the home but the owner. It is estimated that there is 22 million military veterans each household would have at least 1 weapon for each person in the house. Just arming the wives would be 44 million armed citizens. If they had 2 married children that were armed that would bring the total to 88 million. So military families their children and grand children would account for over 100 million homes that would be armed. That is almost 1/3 of the us population that is armed. It is estimated that there are 357 million firearms in America. Now let me get on my soap box for a minute and express my opinion. I believe in God and that one day I will stand before Him and give an account for my life and deeds here on earth. That causes me to have a different worldview that a lot of people as I have to be accountable for my actions. But I am old and was taught a lot different that the youth of today. I was raised to work, mind my manners, speak when spoken too. Have respect for my elders using yes mam and no mam, yes sir, and no sir. I was taught if something was mine I could use it, but if it belonged to someone else I had to ask permission to use it. Most folks today have no respect for themselves or anyone else. No respect for the property of others. Most of the people up to 40 years old have been raised by TV and today it is the cell phone. I dare say more than half of the people in the us are addicted to their cell phone. And that is where they get their news that is usually bogus, like false. I think we have gone to far to come back to sanity. Due to the fact that about 75 % of the people today have become their own God and they can and do decide what is good and what is evil, and their threshold between the two is at the ceiling therefore it is ok to do whatever they pleases. They make their own rules and there is no consequences. God Bless,"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
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NoNukes Inactive Member
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he civilian militia is made up of every person 18 and older. That even includes 22 million former military people that are trained. That has not been true for quite a long time. The Constitution defines what the militia is, and as we have discussed here before, federal statute further defines the current militia. The closest thing to a militia that currently exists in most states is the National Guard. A few states have some additional bodies that meet the constitutional requirements. No, the Militia is not you and the Yancy Street irregulars, despite your desire and willingness to take on federal troops with your collection of pea shooters. It is not 1812 anymore. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door! We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World. Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith
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frako Member (Idle past 331 days) Posts: 2932 From: slovenija Joined: |
The civilian militia is made up of every person 18 and older. That even includes 22 million former military people that are trained. Yea but they where at least trained in firearms a bit, im guessing it worked like it worked in my country everyone gets training after they turn 18 they could push back the trainig if they had excusses like still educating themselves. But the world and america went from that system to having a payed standing army. So if the circumstances changed shouldent the law.
When it comes to the ar15 it is not the best weapon to cause mass damage. Yet it is the one that is always mentioned. Im just glad that these mass murderers are idiots, it would be relativly simple to cause millions of deaths possibly billions in this day and age if one puts his mind to it. like of the top of my head selling their guns using the money to go to congo, get some fruit bat blood that's infected with the marburg virus, surf facebook instagram... and other sites for adresses of people who work on airports, shopping mals, anything where they have contact with loads of people, infect a bunch of stuff with the virus and send it to those people. But back on the gun topic i know to me it makes no difference if its a glock or an rpg its still ment to kill people. Hunters dont need automaatic or semi automatic weapons, or even shotguns with the big balls inside, just birdshot.
I think we have gone to far to come back to sanity. Due to the fact that about 75 % of the people today have become their own God and they can and do decide what is good and what is evil, and their threshold between the two is at the ceiling therefore it is ok to do whatever they pleases. They make their own rules and there is no consequences. Its been that way since the dawn of civilization. Elizabet Bathory used to bleed young virgins to death and bathe in their blood, the servants who had no choice but to help her as she commands got burned at the stake, she got house arrest. Knights of old had an inportant job as ordered by the church, that is to terrorize pesants for they where the descendands of the son who laughed at noa when he was drunk ..... we have a ssaying 100 people 100 wonders 100 women 200 brests. Some people have always been awful, and some people will always be awful. What we can do about it is to make sure they dont get power, any power like rulling, or pressing a trigger and somebody dies. Now im not saying our system is perfect, we do have illegal guns comming mostly from the southern border *bit of irony*, but shootings are rare. Because to legaly own a gun you haveto get a mental exam. And have proficiency in using the weapon.
I raised 2 sons in a house where every gun in the house was loaded at all times. Dunno about america, but gun users here are taught to treat any gun as always loaded, dosent matter if you checked the magazine 5 times and found it empty. It cuts down on idiotic accidents. Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand What are the Christians gonna do to me ..... Forgive me, good luck with that.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9509 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8
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ICANT writes: I raised 2 sons in a house where every gun in the house was loaded at all times. You obviously have no idea how bizarre, dangerous and really, really stupid that sounds to almost everyone else in the rest of the developed world. And Christians with guns is even weirder. If that's possible. WWJD?Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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Percy Member Posts: 22489 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.0 |
frako writes: I get it americans love guns, because propaganda tells you you should,... And apparently the propaganda isn't just from the NRA and gun-nuts. The Russians see the gun issue as yet another avenue for sowing discord here. This is from CNN: Russian bots promote pro-gun messages after Florida school shooting --Percy
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frako Member (Idle past 331 days) Posts: 2932 From: slovenija Joined:
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I grew up around guns too, 2 of my uncles where hunters, but here you have to keep guns under lock and key. And probably unloaded not sure.
And the hunting part of hunting is actually boring here, either you sit in a blind and pick of the animal you have the permit for or your part of a group hunt thats a bit more interesting where part of the hunting group herds animals in to the line of fire of the other. Tracking and stalking your pray isn't really needed. I prefere the other part of hunting in my country, counting animals, feeding them in winter and so on. But that might be my bias i cant hurt mamals, even if i had an animal slaughtered for meat i couldent watch the killing part, after its dead i have no problems. But bizarrely i love to fish. Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand What are the Christians gonna do to me ..... Forgive me, good luck with that.
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Phat Member Posts: 18332 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Tangle writes: And Christians with guns is even weirder. If that's possible. WWJD? Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Guns quote: Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith
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NoNukes Inactive Member
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I am totally blown away by the stories about the high school students from Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School. A number of students have spoken quite eloquently about their governments lack action other than lip service on the issue of school shootings.
Apparently, these kids were not impressed by Trump's "Thumbs UP" photo op, and are expecting, and even demanding that real actions are taken. Florida teen shooting survivors announce 'March for Our Lives' demonstration in Washington - ABC News
quote: If the students can pull this off, I am going to try my best to participate.
quote: Clearly, these young men and women have been paying attention. Who is down? Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door! We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World. Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith
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Percy Member Posts: 22489 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.0
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NoNukes writes: Florida teen shooting survivors announce 'March for Our Lives' demonstration in Washington - ABC News
quote: The same kids appeared on all three weekly news shows, This Week, Meet the Press, and Face the Nation. The girl in the upper right (the kids kept the same seats on all the shows), Emma Gonzalez, also spoke at the rally (everyone: you want to watch this one - Emma is an inspiring speaker):
If the students can pull this off, I am going to try my best to participate. Me too. --Percy
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Percy Member Posts: 22489 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.0
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From Slate Magazine: More Americans Blame Mass Shootings on Mental Health Than on Gun Laws, New Poll Finds
It will always be the extremely rare case that mental health professionals are able to pre-identify mass murderers. Here's a list of mass murderers in the U.S. from Mass Shooting Perpetrators, find me one who could have been pre-identified:
Edward Charles Allaway, James Edward Pough, Carl Robert Brown, Omar Mateen, Robert A. Hawkins, James Oliver Huberty, Nathan Dunlap, George Hennard, Dylann Roof, Adam Lanza, Nidal Malik Hasan, Charles Whitman, Jeff Weise, Gang Lu, Patrick Sherrill, Barry Loukaitis, Esteban Santiago, Christopher Harper-Mercer, Gian Luigi Ferri, Mark Essex, Scott Evans Dekraai, Steven Kazmierczak, Jennifer San Marco, James Eagan Holmes, Michael McLendon, Jared Lee Loughner, Seung-Hui Cho, Elliot Rodger, Charles Carl Roberts IV, Rizwan Farook and Tashfeen Malik, Robert Lewis Dear, Mitchell Johnson and Andrew Golden, Aaron Alexis, Wade Michael Page, Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold, Patrick Edward Purdy, Gavin Eugene Long, Micah Xavier Johnson, Kyle Aaron Huff, One L. Goh, Stephen Paddock, and Devin Patrick Kelley As the article says:
quote: Missing from the list is the most recent mass murderer, Nicholas Cruz, and it is an interesting question whether local law enforcement would have confiscated his gun had the FBI notified them (FBI field offices don't deal with such issues directly, they merely pass on information to local law enforcement). I very much doubt the gun would have been confiscated. As the family with whom Cruz was staying said, he presented as respectful, quiet and obedient, though sad about his mother's death. Americans belief in the predictive power of psychology is seriously misplaced, as any psychologist will tell you. --Percy
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Percy Member Posts: 22489 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.0
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In her New York Times Opinion piece, The Mental Health System Can’t Stop Mass Shooters psychiatrist Amy Barnhorst describes the difficulties faced by mental health professionals trying to stop mass murderers. Here she describes a man she evaluated:
quote: In these excerpts she describes the difficulties more generally:
quote: Bottom line: Republican claims about beefing up the mental health care system is a smokescreen for doing nothing about guns. --Percy
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