Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total)
7 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,816 Year: 3,073/9,624 Month: 918/1,588 Week: 101/223 Day: 12/17 Hour: 1/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Fake polls, fake news
vimesey
Member
Posts: 1398
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011


(5)
Message 151 of 710 (800162)
02-20-2017 12:00 PM
Reply to: Message 148 by Faith
02-20-2017 11:43 AM


Re: Poor sad England, poor sad Europe
concerning England's shameful attempt to bar Trump from visiting.
Nah, you've got that wrong. We're debating whether to withhold a state banquet etc. He'd still be invited to come. It's Trump who tries to bar people entering countries.

Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 148 by Faith, posted 02-20-2017 11:43 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 153 by Theodoric, posted 02-20-2017 12:04 PM vimesey has not replied
 Message 155 by Faith, posted 02-20-2017 12:12 PM vimesey has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 152 of 710 (800163)
02-20-2017 12:03 PM
Reply to: Message 149 by Faith
02-20-2017 11:50 AM


Re: Pizzagate - There's something to it???
is that those emails are very strange and do suggest something ugly.
Maybe in looneyville. But nowhere else. Anything out of context can seem odd. Even in context, people out side of the group may find things odd.
There is no support for this whole thing outside of the emails themselves. Lets look at a string of posts here and randomly decide to make up a code out of certain words. What do you think we can come up with if we do what you claim the Podesta emails do.
This has turned into the absurd.
Attack the Clintons for what they actually have done. Quit inventing fairy tails.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 149 by Faith, posted 02-20-2017 11:50 AM Faith has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 153 of 710 (800164)
02-20-2017 12:04 PM
Reply to: Message 151 by vimesey
02-20-2017 12:00 PM


Re: Poor sad England, poor sad Europe
Again Faith is totally ignorant of the actual facts about something she is arguing about.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 151 by vimesey, posted 02-20-2017 12:00 PM vimesey has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22392
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 154 of 710 (800165)
02-20-2017 12:10 PM
Reply to: Message 149 by Faith
02-20-2017 11:50 AM


Re: Pizzagate - There's something to it???
I see that in your previous post you've got scare-tactic predictions, absurd claims that only the right knows what's best for the country, and statements that now it's a world-wide conspiracy against Trump and that they'll be sorry. I also see nothing about the topic, which is supposed to be fake polls and news. You have no comment about the information about the differences between the Rasmussen and Gallup polls?
Faith writes:
The facts I was referring to are the actual emails. Those ARE facts.
There's more conspiracy in the Constitution than those emails. It might be a good idea to drop the subject until there are facts other than "emails exist."
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 149 by Faith, posted 02-20-2017 11:50 AM Faith has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 155 of 710 (800166)
02-20-2017 12:12 PM
Reply to: Message 151 by vimesey
02-20-2017 12:00 PM


Re: Poor sad England, poor sad Europe
Nah, you've got that wrong. We're debating whether to withhold a state banquet etc. He'd still be invited to come.
Well I'm glad you haven't gone completely bonkers, that's nice to know. However, I got the impression from Percy's post #451 on the Trump Presidency thread:
Percy writes:
The British Parliament is today discussing whether Trump should be barred from making a state visit to the United Kingdom.
It's more fun to blame me for such errors of course.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 151 by vimesey, posted 02-20-2017 12:00 PM vimesey has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 156 by vimesey, posted 02-20-2017 12:20 PM Faith has not replied
 Message 162 by Theodoric, posted 02-20-2017 2:04 PM Faith has not replied

  
vimesey
Member
Posts: 1398
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011


(1)
Message 156 of 710 (800167)
02-20-2017 12:20 PM
Reply to: Message 155 by Faith
02-20-2017 12:12 PM


Re: Poor sad England, poor sad Europe
Percy is correct - it's a "State visit" which comes with the state banquet, invitation to address Parliament and other stuff too. We also invite world leaders to visits which aren't State visits. So whilst we're debating withdrawing the State visit invitation, there's no suggestion of withdrawing the invitation to visit altogether - it's a question of how formal it is, and with what implications it comes.
It's only a debate though - I'm pretty sure the State invitation won't be changed to an ordinary one, given May's Parliamentary majority.

Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 155 by Faith, posted 02-20-2017 12:12 PM Faith has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 158 by caffeine, posted 02-20-2017 12:52 PM vimesey has not replied

  
Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 157 of 710 (800168)
02-20-2017 12:51 PM
Reply to: Message 125 by Faith
02-19-2017 10:49 PM


Re: Emails
I know of no adults who would ever describe the presence of children at a party as "entertaining." And I'm sure you don't either.
No, I know of plenty of adults that would describe children this way, both sincerely and ironically. I think you are falling victim to one of the tactics of fake news: priming. You were primed to read these emails in a lascivious way. You don't even seem to raise an eyebrow and things like
a) If I was going to arrange the abuse of children, I wouldn't email a huge list of people their full names and ages so they can be identified.
b) If I had a system of secret codes - it seems strange that I'd just drop the code like this. Why not talk about 7inch, 9inch and 11 inch pizzas or something here?
I don't understand why you are going to such lengths to rationalize something that is so clearly weird as children singing adulatory songs about a President.
I don't understand why you think me calling something dumb and criticizing Trump for doing it as well as the teachers who did it would be 'rationalizing' it. It's the exact opposite: it's condemning it. Furthermore describing the teachers as 'being dumb' is hardly going to 'such lengths', is it? I think you are reading what you expect me to say, not what I actually said.
Edited by Modulous, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 125 by Faith, posted 02-19-2017 10:49 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 164 by Faith, posted 02-20-2017 2:24 PM Modulous has replied

  
caffeine
Member (Idle past 1024 days)
Posts: 1800
From: Prague, Czech Republic
Joined: 10-22-2008


Message 158 of 710 (800169)
02-20-2017 12:52 PM
Reply to: Message 156 by vimesey
02-20-2017 12:20 PM


Re: Poor sad England, poor sad Europe
For your amusement; the two petitions presented to government regarding Trump's visit. Both got the requisite 100,000 signatories requiring a response, though on a different order of magnitude,
First, the one under discussion, signed by 1.9 million:
quote:
Donald Trump should be allowed to enter the UK in his capacity as head of the US Government, but he should not be invited to make an official State Visit because it would cause embarrassment to Her Majesty the Queen.
Second, the counter-petition signed by 300,000:
quote:
Donald Trump should be invited to make an official State Visit because he is the leader of a free world and U.K. is a country that supports free speech and does not believe that people that appose our point of view should be gagged.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 156 by vimesey, posted 02-20-2017 12:20 PM vimesey has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 160 by RAZD, posted 02-20-2017 1:20 PM caffeine has not replied
 Message 163 by Theodoric, posted 02-20-2017 2:07 PM caffeine has replied

  
Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 159 of 710 (800172)
02-20-2017 1:13 PM
Reply to: Message 132 by Riggamortis
02-20-2017 3:52 AM


Re: Emails
I'm sure you noticed that I made no statements regarding anything being evidence of a satanic child sex ring.
I'm sure you noticed I didn't accuse you of thinking they were evidence of anything.
You, however, seem desperate to dismiss them.
Desperate? I simply replied to your post with counterpoints.
You often uber in some young girls for entertainment at your parties do you?
I have taxied children around - you'll note they weren't using Uber but another friend/family member was driving them to a friend and family party. Yes - I've done that - kids aren't very good drivers in my experience and typically asking them to walk gets frowny faces.
How many party invites have you received where young girls were sold as the entertainment?
Quite a few family and friends get togethers highlight such and such kids will be there.
Children are entertaining but it is certainly weird for them to be considered the entertainment.
They weren't billed as 'the entertainment'.
I'm guessing you don't often ask people whether they think you'd be a better pool player on pizza or burgers though.
Yeah, actually, I have. Maybe not playing pool - but various activities in the past yes, I have. I typically champion the power of curry for my card game nights - except poker where I feel I play optimally with chocolate hobnobs. If they weren't available I might jokingly ask if I could perform on Custard Creams.
You aren't normally an arrogant, condescending prick Mod. What gives?
I was sarcastically dismissing nonsense. Sorry if that comes across as arrogant or condescending. Are you saying that these *are* evidence of a child sex ring? Speaking of condescending and arrogant:
quote:
[sarcasm] Oh thank god I have you to be the voice of reason so I don't get carried away with my tinfoil hat.[/sarcasm]
I'm sure you noticed that I made no statements regarding anything being evidence of a satanic child sex ring. Folks were talking about the weird emails so I found a couple and posted them along with a little comment to avoid posting bare links and quotes. My position is to neither believe nor dismiss the allegations. You, however, seem desperate to dismiss them.
All you seem to be saying is that if you can imagine some innocent way of interpreting the emails they must be innocent.
I don't see any reason to suppose they are evidence of a child sex ring - and will mock those that do.
Why are you so desperate to dismiss the possibility that there is something going on here?
I'm not, I can just see absurd trolling and laugh at those that fall for it. I mean the original source for the child abuse link here is 4chan - home of the trolls for Pete's sake. There is the possibility that any given email could be secret code for something else - but that doesn't mean one should give it serious consideration unless there is actual reason to suspect it.
I'm sure many parents dismissed the possibility that their priest was molesting their children.
I'm sure many mothers have dismissed the possibility that their partner was abusing their children.
Indeed. But the clues aren't typically in emails arranging pizza and pool parties.
I'm not so eager to dismiss the possibility of an elite child abuse ring.
Nor am I. I insist that such child abuse rings exist. I am not desperate, however, to interpret someone talking about a handkerchief and a pizza related map as evidence of a child abuse ring. Because that's absurd.
You know people of all types are capable of being pedophiles, even police. What exempts the wealthy people who have the best chance of getting away with it?
Nothing. But it would be ridiculous to propose a specific group of wealthy people were a child abuse ring based on the evidence presented.

I actually worked as part of a volunteer group who would identify child porn rings, and report them to their ISP and to their local law enforcement. I can confirm 'cp' was used to codify 'child porn' but I should note that all the 'codes' used were designed to be understood by everybody while attempting to retain some degree of plausible deniability. Cheese Pizza was never used as it is meaningless.
But hey, I never delved all that deeply into the world - maybe there is something to it.
In which case, why would an elite child abuse ring use universal codes in their emails? Why not create their own codes so that random hackers/burglars/law enforcement wouldn't be alerted? That is the point of an elite child abuse ring, right?
So no, nothing in the story makes sense as far as drawing from 'universal codes to introduce discussion of dangerous subjects with perfect strangers' or from the perspective of a 'private ring'.
Edited by Modulous, : No reason given.
Edited by Modulous, : No reason given.
Edited by Modulous, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 132 by Riggamortis, posted 02-20-2017 3:52 AM Riggamortis has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 179 by Riggamortis, posted 02-20-2017 9:00 PM Modulous has replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 160 of 710 (800173)
02-20-2017 1:20 PM
Reply to: Message 158 by caffeine
02-20-2017 12:52 PM


Re: Poor sad England, poor sad Europe
Second, the counter-petition signed by 300,000:
quote:
Donald Trump should be invited to make an official State Visit because he is the leader of a free world and U.K. is a country that supports free speech and does not believe that people that appose our point of view should be gagged.
How does being declined an official state visit constrain his freedom of speech, especially in light of his (blackmail) request that Prince Charles not attend?
http://realtimepolitics.com/...uk-is-in-shock-details-inside
Trump to 'avoid Charles on UK visit over climate change' | Daily Mail Online
He wants a party that celebrates him, not a state visit where world issues are discussed.
Enjoy

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 158 by caffeine, posted 02-20-2017 12:52 PM caffeine has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 161 by vimesey, posted 02-20-2017 1:49 PM RAZD has replied

  
vimesey
Member
Posts: 1398
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011


(1)
Message 161 of 710 (800174)
02-20-2017 1:49 PM
Reply to: Message 160 by RAZD
02-20-2017 1:20 PM


Re: Poor sad England, poor sad Europe
He wants a party that celebrates him, not a state visit where world issues are discussed.
One should always play to one's strengths.

Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 160 by RAZD, posted 02-20-2017 1:20 PM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 171 by RAZD, posted 02-20-2017 4:59 PM vimesey has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 162 of 710 (800177)
02-20-2017 2:04 PM
Reply to: Message 155 by Faith
02-20-2017 12:12 PM


Re: Poor sad England, poor sad Europe
You really need to actually read up on subjects before you opine on them.
First homework.
Figure out what a "State Visit" is.
The error is yours because you have no clue what you are even commenting on.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 155 by Faith, posted 02-20-2017 12:12 PM Faith has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 163 of 710 (800178)
02-20-2017 2:07 PM
Reply to: Message 158 by caffeine
02-20-2017 12:52 PM


Re: Poor sad England, poor sad Europe
Is the spelling problem actually in the original counter proposal?
I guess they could have meant appose, but that would be weird.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 158 by caffeine, posted 02-20-2017 12:52 PM caffeine has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 168 by caffeine, posted 02-20-2017 3:31 PM Theodoric has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 164 of 710 (800179)
02-20-2017 2:24 PM
Reply to: Message 157 by Modulous
02-20-2017 12:51 PM


Re: Emails
I know of no adults who would ever describe the presence of children at a party as "entertaining." And I'm sure you don't either.
No, I know of plenty of adults that would describe children this way, both sincerely and ironically.
So now we get a little context change and a little word magic and totally overlook the point being made. I know of no adults with or without children who would invite other adults to a party and feel the need to inform them that children will be there for their entertainment. That is beyond odd. We are not talking about people happening to find children entertaining, which of course they may, but they aren't invited to a party where children are offered as entertainment unless something really really strange is going on. I'm sure you know this, Mod, but as Riggamortis asked, why are you going to such lengths to try to make it seem normal when it simply is not?
I think you are falling victim to one of the tactics of fake news: priming. You were primed to read these emails in a lascivious way. You don't even seem to raise an eyebrow and things like
a) If I was going to arrange the abuse of children, I wouldn't email a huge list of people their full names and ages so they can be identified.
b) If I had a system of secret codes - it seems strange that I'd just drop the code like this. Why not talk about 7inch, 9inch and 11 inch pizzas or something here?
People finding these emails strange is not the fake news; those denying it are the fake news. It's strange, there is no way I can see to rationalize away the strangeness, especially when there are other strange things in the emails. Yes it's odd it seems to be so out in the open but people do get complacent and take chances. However odd that may be, the content is far odder.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 157 by Modulous, posted 02-20-2017 12:51 PM Modulous has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 167 by herebedragons, posted 02-20-2017 3:25 PM Faith has replied
 Message 169 by Modulous, posted 02-20-2017 3:39 PM Faith has not replied
 Message 172 by RAZD, posted 02-20-2017 6:12 PM Faith has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 165 of 710 (800180)
02-20-2017 2:47 PM


Maybe not all Conservatives are fooled.
Milo Yiannopoulos has been uninvited as a speaker at this weeks Conservative Political Action Conference and it seems simply because he is not fit to be in polite company. President Trump is still scheduled to speak at the conference even though he too seems not fit to be in polite company.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

Replies to this message:
 Message 166 by vimesey, posted 02-20-2017 3:13 PM jar has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024