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Author Topic:   Fake polls, fake news
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 331 of 710 (800510)
02-24-2017 2:09 PM
Reply to: Message 329 by Faith
02-24-2017 1:00 PM


Re: Galloping disinformation as usual
Faith writes:
Ah well, clearly the propaganda from the Swedish government that is strangled by political correctness is simply preferred by posters here.
Don't be an fucking idiot.
Sweden is a modern Western democratic nation. It collects objective data on crime for all sorts of reasons and has done so for generations. It publishes it's sources and methodologies. The data is subject to independent audit and analysis by god knows how many interested organisations from criminologists to jourmalists. Any fiddling with it would immediately create a public scandal.
Your anecdotes are absurd and your agenda an abomination - to use your damn bible accurately for once.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien.
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


(1)
Message 332 of 710 (800511)
02-24-2017 2:27 PM
Reply to: Message 330 by Faith
02-24-2017 1:14 PM


Re: Galloping disinformation as usual
Faith you are being lied to and passing on the lies. We know this because we can see the evidence.
Edited by Theodoric, : No reason given.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

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Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 333 of 710 (800516)
02-24-2017 3:02 PM
Reply to: Message 330 by Faith
02-24-2017 1:14 PM


where they are claiming to have been misunderstood
Technically they are claiming that the questions they were asked, were different from the questions the documentary suggests they were being asked. It's a classic propaganda technique. Take something like this:
quote:
Q: 'What do you think about transgender folk?'
A: 'I think there are demons involved that creates some kind of psychological pressure. I think they are engaging in an abomination'
Q: 'What do you think about Catholics?'
A: 'They completely misunderstand the Bible and are in collusion with socialists to undermine education and engage in revisionist history'
Redub the interview and you can get:
quote:
Q: 'What do you think about Conservatives?'
A: 'I think there are demons involved that creates some kind of psychological pressure. I think they are engaging in an abomination'
Q: 'What do you think about Protestants?'
A: 'They completely misunderstand the Bible and are in collusion with socialists to undermine education and engage in revisionist history'
Edited by Modulous, : No reason given.

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Porosity
Member (Idle past 2094 days)
Posts: 158
From: MT, USA
Joined: 06-15-2013


Message 334 of 710 (800517)
02-24-2017 3:04 PM
Reply to: Message 331 by Tangle
02-24-2017 2:09 PM


Re: Galloping disinformation as usual
Don't be an fucking idiot.
This person is not stupid, intelligent people aren't immune to conspiracy theories and superstitious beliefs.
If you ignore factual or scientific evidence that is at odds with your worldview, you’re an easy target for conspiracy theories ― regardless of your political affiliation or intelligence.
One of the first lines of defense are inclusive forums like this, environments where disputing unproven facts and conspiracies in a group discussion is encouraged.
A recent study shows how conspiratorial thinking and social exclusion can trigger a vicious cycle that isolates those who believe false narratives.
Just a moment...
The dark side of meaning-making: How social exclusion leads to superstitious thinking:
Abstract:
This paper tests a meaning-making model of conspiratorial thinking by considering how one's search for mean-ing mediates between social exclusion and the endorsement of conspiratorial (Study 1) and superstitious (Study2) beliefs. In Study 1, participants first wrote about a self-selected personal event that involved a social interac-tion, they then indicated how socially excluded they felt after the event, and, finally, they rated their endorse-ment of three well-known conspiracy theories. In Study 2, participants were randomly assigned to a Social Inclusion,a Social Exclusion, or a Control condition, after which they indicated the association between improb-able events in three scenarios. In addition, both studies mechanistically tested the relation between social exclu-sion and conspiratorial/superstitious thinking by measuring the participants' tendency to search for meaning.Both Study 1 (correlational) and Study 2 (experimental) offer support for the hypothesis that social exclusion is associated with superstitious/conspiratorial beliefs. One's search for meaning, correlational analyses revealed,mediated this relation. We discuss the implication of the findings for community-wide belief dynamics and we propose that social inclusion could be used to diminish the dissemination of superstitious beliefs and conspiracy theories
Confirmation bias, or seeking out information that supports your previously established beliefs, isn’t just lazy, It’s dangerous, and can lead to real world consequences, like when an armed man entered a DC restaurant investigating pizzagate.
Edited by Porosity, : Doh!

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 335 of 710 (800518)
02-24-2017 3:35 PM
Reply to: Message 334 by Porosity
02-24-2017 3:04 PM


Re: Galloping disinformation as usual
This person is not stupid, intelligent people aren't immune to conspiracy theories and superstitious beliefs.
I'd take this a bit further. We're all susceptible to conspiracy theories, particularly those that play onto our deeply held beliefs, i.e. our world view. They only defense against such susceptibility is a rigorous method of questioning and evaluating evidence. If I were looking for a short name, I'd call it 'critical thinking'.
And critical thinking is only a partial defense against conspiracy thinking and superstition. But its about all we have.
Confirmation bias, or seeking out information that supports your previously established beliefs, isn’t just lazy, It’s dangerous, and can lead to real world consequences, like when an armed man entered a DC restaurant investigating pizzagate.
Or like when the president puts the intelligence agencies to the task of finding a case to invade Iraq, or finding evidence that folks from those seven Muslim countries are terrorist threat only after getting slapped down in court.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith
Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000

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NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 336 of 710 (800520)
02-24-2017 4:29 PM


Administration dis-invites New York Times and CNN from press briefing:
White House blocks CNN, other news organizations from press briefing
quote:
The New York Times, the Los Angeles Times, Politico and BuzzFeed were also excluded from the meeting, which is known as a gaggle and is less formal than the televised Q-and-A session in the White House briefing room. The gaggle was held by White House press secretary Sean Spicer.
In a brief statement defending the move, administration spokeswoman Sarah Sanders said the White House "had the pool there so everyone would be represented and get an update from us today."
The pool usually includes a representative from one television network and one print outlet. In this case, four of the five major television networks -- NBC, ABC, CBS and Fox News -- were invited and attended the meeting, while only CNN was blocked.
Trump speaking to the Conservative Political Action Committee:
quote:
"They are the enemy of the people because they have no sources," Trump said. "They just make them up when there are none."
He also said reporters "shouldn't be allowed" to use unnamed sources.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith
Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000

Replies to this message:
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jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 337 of 710 (800523)
02-24-2017 5:19 PM
Reply to: Message 336 by NoNukes
02-24-2017 4:29 PM


Re: Administration dis-invites New York Times and CNN from press briefing:
The BBC was also not allowed into the meeting.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


(1)
Message 338 of 710 (800524)
02-24-2017 5:39 PM
Reply to: Message 329 by Faith
02-24-2017 1:00 PM


Mapping out News sources by credibility
I'm just going to put this here:
Ones at the bottom are less to un- reliable, at the top more reliable.
Left side is left leaning, right side is right leaning.
so looney-bin left is lower left while looney-bin right is lower right
Now I agree that the lower left are unreliable and tend towards fake headlines that are not supported in the body of the article and to articles that overstate the case.
I prefer The Hill to Slate and the Guardian to the Wall Street Journal (corporatist)
I also prefer BBC and NPR to ABC, NBC and other stock mainstream news - especially at the national level.
I don't see Democracy Now listed or Grist.
Enjoy

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

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NosyNed
Member
Posts: 8996
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


Message 339 of 710 (800525)
02-24-2017 6:23 PM
Reply to: Message 338 by RAZD
02-24-2017 5:39 PM


Not a credible picture
It left out my favourite: "The Economist"

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jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 340 of 710 (800527)
02-24-2017 6:34 PM
Reply to: Message 339 by NosyNed
02-24-2017 6:23 PM


Re: Not a credible picture
It's there. Red box right over the Wall Street Journal.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

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Rrhain
Member
Posts: 6351
From: San Diego, CA, USA
Joined: 05-03-2003


Message 341 of 710 (800528)
02-24-2017 7:05 PM
Reply to: Message 329 by Faith
02-24-2017 1:00 PM


Re: Galloping disinformation as usual
Faith writes:
quote:
Ah well, clearly the propaganda from the Swedish government that is strangled by political correctness is simply preferred by posters here.
But to what end? What possible benefit could Sweden have in lying to its citizens about crime?
The very people you put forward as an example of this "political correctness" have called you a liar, Faith. So which is it? Were they lying when they talked to Horowitz or were they lying about how Horowitz portrayed them? And if they are liars, why are you using them as a source?
quote:
You think you're asking for evidence but the evidence has been posted.
And it has been found to be a tissue of lies. So why do you continue to rely upon it?
quote:
The propaganda is on the other side, the people who are afraid of the truth that their country is being destroyed by Muslim refugees.
Huh? There hasn't been a single incident of terrorism in the US by any refugee. And the crime statistics in Sweden show that crime rates haven't changed since 2005 despite the huge uptick in immigration to the point that more than 15% of the country is now foreign born.
What is there to gain from falsifying the crime reports?
quote:
I posted the interview by Fox where the cops are interviewed saying it wasn't immigrants it was a high crime area
And those cops directly called it out as a lie. Shouldn't that tell you something about your trust in Fox as a source?
quote:
but the fact is that the high crime areas are where the immigrants live.
No, that isn't true. Remember, the crime rate in Sweden hasn't changed in the past dozen years and the cops you are referencing have called your statements to be lies. Why do you still refer to them?
quote:
Imagine that.
Indeed, imagine that: Someone who has had her own source call her a liar is still insisting upon her claims.
quote:
And one of the cops gave it away by saying they don't want to be considered racist. Imagine that. It's all there.
Yes, the direct statements by those policemen calling that a lie is there. Imagine that. They're calling you a liar and you still claim they support you.
The amazing thing is that you don't want to know it.

Rrhain

Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time.

Minds are like parachutes. Just because you've lost yours doesn't mean you can use mine.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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ramoss
Member (Idle past 612 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 08-11-2004


(2)
Message 342 of 710 (800536)
02-24-2017 10:53 PM


In the mean time, Bill O'reilly has a 'sweden defense advisor' on his show that, well, sweden never heard about, and Carlson Tucker had an actor who played the part of one of the an 'anti-trump protest organizer' since none of the ones he contacted would go on his show.

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


(7)
Message 343 of 710 (800539)
02-25-2017 11:45 AM
Reply to: Message 330 by Faith
02-24-2017 1:14 PM


Galloping disinformation from Faux Noise ... as usual
Here's another one for you Faith:
quote:
Fake Sweden expert on Fox News — has criminal convictions in US, no connection to Swedish security
Fox News continues to focus on the debate about how immigration is breaking Sweden. One guest last night, described as a Swedish defense and national security advisor, spoke about the problems caused by criminality in Swedish cities and suburbs. But neither the Swedish Defense Ministry nor Foreign Office have heard of the expert. Nils Bildt, who called for an open and honest debate on crime, has previously been convicted of a violent offence in the United States.
Friday the question was the focus of debate during the conservative Fox-presenter Bill O’Reillys show, where Nils Bildt confirmed Donald Trumps negative view of Sweden. Nils Bildt was introduced by Fox as a Swedish defense and national security advisor, which has caused more than a few raised eyebrows.
Marie Pister at the Swedish Defense Ministry says that no-one called Nils Bildt works there. We have no spokesman by that name, she said. The Foreign Office also denies that he works there. We do not know who he is.
Nils Bildt sent a short e-mail to DN late earlier on Friday, explaining why he was given the title of Swedish defense and national security advisor: I appeared on Bill O'Reillys's show on Fox News. The title was chosen by Fox News's editor — I had no personal control over what title they chose. I am an independent analyst based in the USA, he wrote.
Johan Wiktorin, a former defense analyst at the Military Intelligence and Security Service, MUST, says that he has never heard of Nils Bildt. He is unknown in Sweden as an expert on national security. The depiction of Sweden as a problem country in American media is a disturbing trend.
"disturbing trend" is a polite way of saying it is a steaming pile of horse manure -- it's fake news and falsehoods.
If it's Faux it's FAKE.
Enjoy

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(1)
Message 344 of 710 (800541)
02-25-2017 12:01 PM
Reply to: Message 343 by RAZD
02-25-2017 11:45 AM


A look back at the Republican position and vision.
quote:
With malice toward none; with charity for all; with firmness in the right, as God gives us to see the right, let us strive on to finish the work we are in; to bind up the nation's wounds; to care for him who shall have borne the battle, and for his widow, and his orphan -- to achieve and cherish a lasting peace among ourselves and with the world. to do all which may achieve and cherish a just, and a lasting peace, among ourselves, and with the world. all nations.
A. Lincoln (draft copy of second inauguration address).

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
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Porosity
Member (Idle past 2094 days)
Posts: 158
From: MT, USA
Joined: 06-15-2013


(1)
Message 345 of 710 (800545)
02-25-2017 3:29 PM
Reply to: Message 343 by RAZD
02-25-2017 11:45 AM


Re: Galloping disinformation from Faux Noise ... as usual
Psychological projection:
also known as blame shifting, is a theory in psychology in which humans defend themselves against their own unpleasant impulses by denying their existence while attributing them to others. For example, a person who is rude may constantly accuse other people of being rude.
This is some level 5 Nazi shit.

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