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Author Topic:   Bible Inerrancy stands against all objections
AdminPhat
Inactive Member


Message 46 of 232 (841956)
10-24-2018 12:50 PM


To All Participants
This topic is in the Bible Inerrancy Forum and yet no case has been made to this point to scripturally support the basic premise. I am unimpressed with some of the replies and attitudes towards other EvC members thus far and am also unimpressed with the basic argument. It is nothing more than an individual member being allowed to rant against everyone else and get away with it so far.
I am not going to tolerate it. Either make a case with scripture for or against Biblical Inerrancy or this topic will be shut down.

  • Please stay on topic for a thread. Open a new thread for new topics.
  • Points should be supported with evidence and reasoned argumentation.
  • The sincerely held beliefs of other members deserve your respect. Please keep discussion civil. Argue the position, not the person.

  •   
    Taq
    Member
    Posts: 9973
    Joined: 03-06-2009
    Member Rating: 5.6


    Message 47 of 232 (841958)
    10-24-2018 1:20 PM
    Reply to: Message 28 by Faith
    10-23-2018 5:50 PM


    Re: to GDR: Word of God is both Christ and Scripture
    Faith writes:
    First, I don't know if those signers find the Young Earth in scripture, it isn't mentioned in the document. I think it's pretty inescapable myself but I don't want to impose that on them. My own view is that it is there and that means the Old Earth is simply wrong. The document merely says that wherever there is conflict with science the Bible is right and will eventually be shown to be right.
    I don't see geocentrism in the Bible though.
    Plenty of people saw Geocentrism in the Bible, and they used the same exact arguments you are using for a young Earth. We might as well throw a Flat Earth into the mix as well.
    Let's say I have a text that I claim is inerrant because it came from a deity. My interpretation of that text leads me to believe that it unequivocally states that the Earth is flat. Wouldn't you conclude that the text I have is in error and was therefore not written by a deity? If so, do you understand the problems that YEC poses for biblical inerrancy?

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 28 by Faith, posted 10-23-2018 5:50 PM Faith has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 48 by Faith, posted 10-24-2018 1:23 PM Taq has not replied
     Message 50 by Faith, posted 10-24-2018 1:27 PM Taq has not replied

      
    Faith 
    Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
    Posts: 35298
    From: Nevada, USA
    Joined: 10-06-2001


    Message 48 of 232 (841959)
    10-24-2018 1:23 PM
    Reply to: Message 47 by Taq
    10-24-2018 1:20 PM


    Re: to GDR: Word of God is both Christ and Scripture
    If you or anyone want to prove that Geocentrism is biblical, please produce the scripture you think says so. I don't see any myself.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 47 by Taq, posted 10-24-2018 1:20 PM Taq has not replied

      
    JonF
    Member (Idle past 168 days)
    Posts: 6174
    Joined: 06-23-2003


    Message 49 of 232 (841960)
    10-24-2018 1:25 PM
    Reply to: Message 44 by Faith
    10-24-2018 12:44 PM


    You have steadfastly resisted learning anything that contradicts your ignorant fantasies.
    That's why people criticize you.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 44 by Faith, posted 10-24-2018 12:44 PM Faith has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 51 by Faith, posted 10-24-2018 1:28 PM JonF has not replied

      
    Faith 
    Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
    Posts: 35298
    From: Nevada, USA
    Joined: 10-06-2001


    Message 50 of 232 (841961)
    10-24-2018 1:27 PM
    Reply to: Message 47 by Taq
    10-24-2018 1:20 PM


    Re: to GDR: Word of God is both Christ and Scripture
    Let's say I have a text that I claim is inerrant because it came from a deity. My interpretation of that text leads me to believe that it unequivocally states that the Earth is flat. Wouldn't you conclude that the text I have is in error and was therefore not written by a deity? If so, do you understand the problems that YEC poses for biblical inerrancy?
    I don't get your point. I don't see geocentrism or a flat earth in the Bible and hypothesizing that some other religion might support such ideas doesn't seem relevant. YEC poses a problem only because of the false science of the ToE and OE. THEY are the problem, not YEC.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 47 by Taq, posted 10-24-2018 1:20 PM Taq has not replied

      
    Faith 
    Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
    Posts: 35298
    From: Nevada, USA
    Joined: 10-06-2001


    Message 51 of 232 (841962)
    10-24-2018 1:28 PM
    Reply to: Message 49 by JonF
    10-24-2018 1:25 PM


    People criticize me because I disagree with the status quo.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 49 by JonF, posted 10-24-2018 1:25 PM JonF has not replied

      
    AdminPhat
    Inactive Member


    Message 52 of 232 (841966)
    10-24-2018 1:48 PM


    Reopening Cautiously
    Play Nice
    Edited by AdminPhat, : reopening thread

  • Please stay on topic for a thread. Open a new thread for new topics.
  • Points should be supported with evidence and reasoned argumentation.
  • The sincerely held beliefs of other members deserve your respect. Please keep discussion civil. Argue the position, not the person.

  •   
    Paboss
    Member (Idle past 1765 days)
    Posts: 55
    Joined: 10-01-2017


    Message 53 of 232 (841992)
    10-25-2018 4:37 AM
    Reply to: Message 15 by Faith
    10-23-2018 8:24 AM


    Re: to GDR: Word of God is both Christ and Scripture
    Discussing about the two versions of Paul’s conversion
    Faith writes:
    The usual resolution of the incident you mention has to do with "hearing" meaning "understanding" and when it says they saw no man nothing contradicts that since in the other cases all they saw was light, not a person.
    Let’s have a look at the verses themselves:
    First, look at the NIV version:
    quote:
    AC 9:7 (NIV). The men traveling with Saul stood there speechless; they heard the sound but did not see anyone.
    AC 22:9 (NIV). My companions saw the light, but did not understand the voice of him who was speaking to me.
    If we try to make a single verse out of these two, we could arrive at something like this:
    quote:
    The men traveling with Saul stood speechless; they heard the voice but did not understand it. They saw the light but did not see anyone.
    At least when it comes to NIV I can’t really say it is contradictory. Now let’s look at the NKJV:
    quote:
    AC 9:7 (NKJV). And the men who journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a voice but seeing no one.
    AC 22:9 (NKJV). And those who were with me indeed saw the light and were afraid, but they did not hear the voice of Him who spoke to me.
    A single verse out of those would look something like this:
    quote:
    And the men who journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a voice but did not hear the voice of Him who spoke to Paul. They saw the light and were afraid but did not see anyone.
    Does it mean they heard some other voice but not that of Jesus? If that is the case I do note that while in the NIV version they hear Jesus's voice and don't understand it, in NKJV they don't hear it at all.
    It is rather ambiguous, but I guess is not the best verse to argue for biblical contradictions. But there are other verses that I will present to you to argue against your idea that the Bible is inerrant. But before that I want to ask you if there’s any particular version of the Bible that you hold as inerrant or any version will do for you to support your case.
    Edited by Paboss, : No reason given.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 15 by Faith, posted 10-23-2018 8:24 AM Faith has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 54 by Faith, posted 10-25-2018 8:04 PM Paboss has replied
     Message 55 by PaulK, posted 10-26-2018 2:53 AM Paboss has not replied

      
    Faith 
    Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
    Posts: 35298
    From: Nevada, USA
    Joined: 10-06-2001


    Message 54 of 232 (842043)
    10-25-2018 8:04 PM
    Reply to: Message 53 by Paboss
    10-25-2018 4:37 AM


    Re: to GDR: Word of God is both Christ and Scripture
    KJV.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 53 by Paboss, posted 10-25-2018 4:37 AM Paboss has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 73 by Paboss, posted 10-27-2018 2:32 AM Faith has replied

      
    PaulK
    Member
    Posts: 17822
    Joined: 01-10-2003
    Member Rating: 2.2


    Message 55 of 232 (842053)
    10-26-2018 2:53 AM
    Reply to: Message 53 by Paboss
    10-25-2018 4:37 AM


    Re: to GDR: Word of God is both Christ and Scripture
    The NIV is known for covering up contradictions.
    Funny how that would happen to a book supposedly without contradictions.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 53 by Paboss, posted 10-25-2018 4:37 AM Paboss has not replied

      
    jar
    Member (Idle past 394 days)
    Posts: 34026
    From: Texas!!
    Joined: 04-20-2004


    Message 56 of 232 (842058)
    10-26-2018 8:16 AM
    Reply to: Message 1 by Faith
    10-22-2018 5:28 PM


    The Chicago Statement of Faith is based on willful dishonesty.
    The Chicago Statement of Faith begins with willfull dishonesty and depends on the willful ignorance of the audience.
    The very first paragraph sets the argument and makes it clear that it is based on the total denial of reality and factual evidence and instead is totally dependent on the dogma of the Cult.
    quote:
    The authority of Scripture is a key issue for the Christian church in this and every age. Those who profess faith in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior are called to show the reality of their discipleship by humbly and faithfully obeying God's written Word. To stray from Scripture in faith or conduct is disloyalty to our Master. Recognition of the total truth and trustworthiness of Holy Scripture is essential to a full grasp and adequate confession of its authority.
    It is a position based not just on dishonesty and ignorance but rather on an active and willful adoption of dishonesty and ignorance and a basic life choice.

    My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 1 by Faith, posted 10-22-2018 5:28 PM Faith has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 57 by Faith, posted 10-26-2018 10:05 AM jar has replied

      
    Faith 
    Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
    Posts: 35298
    From: Nevada, USA
    Joined: 10-06-2001


    Message 57 of 232 (842062)
    10-26-2018 10:05 AM
    Reply to: Message 56 by jar
    10-26-2018 8:16 AM


    Re: The Chicago Statement of Faith is based on willful dishonesty.
    Actually it's based on the historical understanding of inerrancy whether that sits well with your personal judgment or not. And the men who put it together are leaders of evangelicalism whether that sits well with your judgment or not.
    Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 56 by jar, posted 10-26-2018 8:16 AM jar has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 58 by PaulK, posted 10-26-2018 10:12 AM Faith has not replied
     Message 59 by jar, posted 10-26-2018 11:48 AM Faith has not replied

      
    PaulK
    Member
    Posts: 17822
    Joined: 01-10-2003
    Member Rating: 2.2


    Message 58 of 232 (842064)
    10-26-2018 10:12 AM
    Reply to: Message 57 by Faith
    10-26-2018 10:05 AM


    Re: The Chicago Statement of Faith is based on willful dishonesty.
    quote:
    Actually it's based on the historical understanding of inerrancy whether that sits well with your personal judgment or not.
    Then why is your evidence of this historical understsnding the Chicago Statement itself? Choosing that document as your only evidence hardly gives us any reason to believe that the doctrine is an awful lot older.
    quote:
    And the men who put it together are leaders of evangelicalism whether that sits well with your judgment or not.
    I don’t mind. Evangelicals ought to, but that’s their problem.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 57 by Faith, posted 10-26-2018 10:05 AM Faith has not replied

      
    jar
    Member (Idle past 394 days)
    Posts: 34026
    From: Texas!!
    Joined: 04-20-2004


    Message 59 of 232 (842083)
    10-26-2018 11:48 AM
    Reply to: Message 57 by Faith
    10-26-2018 10:05 AM


    Re: The Chicago Statement of Faith is based on willful dishonesty.
    Faith writes:
    Actually it's based on the historical understanding of inerrancy whether that sits well with your personal judgment or not.
    Yet you provide no evidence that was actually true and even if it were true that would not change the fact that it begins with an assertion that the base is a willful denial of reality and honesty.
    Faith writes:
    And the men who put it together are leaders of evangelicalism whether that sits well with your judgment or not.
    Correct, it was put together a covin of "True Believers" and "Fellow Travelers". That does not change the fact that it begins with an assertion that the base is a willful denial of reality and honesty.

    My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 57 by Faith, posted 10-26-2018 10:05 AM Faith has not replied

      
    Dr Adequate
    Member (Idle past 284 days)
    Posts: 16113
    Joined: 07-20-2006


    Message 60 of 232 (842085)
    10-26-2018 11:59 AM
    Reply to: Message 14 by Faith
    10-23-2018 8:22 AM


    Most of my arguments are based on my own completely original observations of geological information, in most cases without referring at all to the Bible or Morris or anything except the physical information.
    But your position was invented by a bunch of YECs and is nowhere to be found in the Bible, is my point. Yet you refer to your position as the Biblical position and think you're defending the Bible rather than the people who invented and promulgated your beliefs about geology; and you are apparently sincere in doing so. Why not admit the same sincerity in geocentrists? --- especially as it is much easier to find geocentrism in the Bible than "flood geology".

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 14 by Faith, posted 10-23-2018 8:22 AM Faith has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 61 by Faith, posted 10-26-2018 2:44 PM Dr Adequate has replied

      
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